Interesting SD situation

Hakaman · Post by **Hakaman** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:45 pm

Here's an interesting read from the Beretta Forum:

http://www.berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=65593

any comments?

Haka

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:07 pm

Home Invaders screaming "POLICE, POLICE" "GET ON THE GROUND".

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I recently read about some home invasion victims where the perps kick in the rear door, while victims are asleep.

When the male resident makes it to the living room, the robbers are yelling "POLICE, POLICE" ..."GET ON THE GROUND". He sees two armed men pointing guns at him. He and his wife are then pistol whipped several times while cash is demanded, when the male resident says he has no more cash, they beat his wife bloody again with the pistol and start counting 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1 while pointing the gun to her head as if they're going to kill her. Then the husband says go get my pants in the bedroom and you'll find $120 more in the pocket. After taking the money, they simply walked out the door. Local law enforcement is still looking for the two robbers.

This actually happened and I'm wondering how folks on this board would have handled this situation when the robbers are yelling "POLICE, POLICE" "GET ON THE GROUND".

If they were really Police and he simply started firing at the invaders, well that's not a good thing. But how would he know in those crucial seconds who were "imitators" vs "real LEO". There's no time to ask for search warrants when this takes place in a matter of seconds.

Any feedback out there ?

bigfatdave · Post by **bigfatdave** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:16 pm

Real police have warrants. Real police aren't easily mistaken for home invaders.

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:19 pm

sounds like good tactic from the bad guys.....most of the armed home invaisions I have ever been to the "victim" usually is a member of the medication communtiy and the "suspects" are looking for their dope or cash from their dope.

...they used the same tactics as a SWAT unit Speed supriise and violence of action. BUT it looks like they were not identified as a police unit would (should) be... this is a bad situation all around.

you would have to make the choice on the spot if you were in the homeowners shoes... do you:
1) comply and believe they are the real police and meant to raid another house.
2) go to guns and defend your homestead (you do have a right to resist an unlawful arrest)
3) give in to thier demands and be a good witness.
4) or make up a Plan d,e,f,g, etc...

tough choices to make on the fly

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:20 pm

bigfatdave wrote:Real police have warrants. Real police aren't easily mistaken for home invaders.

bigfatdave · Post by **bigfatdave** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:42 pm

bgreenea3 wrote:tough choices to make on the fly

That's for damn sure.
I hope I never have to make such a choice, but the difference on my side of the door between a wrong address no-knock warrant and a home invasion is pretty damn small.
I don't want to accelerate lead towards some poor schlub trying to do his job with the PD, but on the other hand, I'm not going to assume someone kicking in my door is friendly by default.

Hopefully stories like this will serve as a reminder to LE and voters alike that the policy of no-knock SWAT-wannabe "warrant" serving is not only unconstitutional ... but also hazardous to the health of the poor schlubs doing the work.
The ability of invaders to mimic the tactics of the misguided "war on medications" is a symptom of this misguided nanny-state policy and the black market it creates for opportunistic scumburgers.

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:31 pm

most of the no knocks are preceded by a flash bang and always with more than two guys...... actually they are a pretty rare occurance

Hakaman · Post by **Hakaman** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:54 pm

This is what I would probably do, and I say probably, because no one knows for sure what they would do with the pressure on.
I would not try to confront them with a gun, but back off to a safe room stating:
"Get out of my house, I have a gun. You do not belong here" ! I need some proof of who you are.
If you come after me, I will shoot. I will call the police myself".
Maybe it sounds a little corny, but I think it would go something like that.
Haka

Post by **Bullseye** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:15 pm

I moved this topic to this forum.

I've seen this style of robbery happen a few times before in the past. There's also been a few homeowners shot resisting when the real police do come to a house by some citizen thinks this is another fake cop robbery.

R,
Bullseye

Baldy · Post by **Baldy** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:05 pm

We have a small home. From the front door it opens into one large room with a small kitchen. I have made up my mind that the only way I can protect it is walk straight at them while firing. There is no where to take cover. The wife will be in the bed room on the phone and the one daughter will be doing the same. Both are armed and will shoot anybody that comes through the doors. I don't know of any other way that I can protect them.

If it's the police they will take me out fast enough. If it's not maybe I'll get lucky and take one of them with me. I have thought about this for years. My son in law who is on SWAT with our local department says I am nuts, but can't come up with anything better. He wants me to stay put in the bed room, but I can't do that as my daughter is on the other side of the great room.

greener · Post by **greener** » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:58 am

I think your son-in-law is right. If the perps have kicked the doors open and are in the main room in the dark of night, it doesn't matter how they identify themselves, they have the advantage. Going out into, now, their territory outnumbered is not the best idea. Different choice maybe if they are between you and family.

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:12 am

having a plan is better than no plan, but when it comes down to it most people will react with the standard "fight, flight, or freeze" response. I'm willing to be most of our reactions to a bump in the night is to go andd investigate.

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:49 pm

bgreenea3 wrote:having a plan is better than no plan, but when it comes down to it most people will react with the standard "fight, flight, or freeze" response. I'm willing to be most of our reactions to a bump in the night is to go andd investigate.

I'm too old to run or fight and way too old to take a butt kicing as a result someone will get shot. I don't often miss so it would most likely be fatal.

Medicine Hat · Post by **Medicine Hat** » Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:27 pm

I'm with bearandoldman on this one. It's been said that no one should pick a fight with an old man, if he can't run or fight, he'll just kill you.

IF I have to defend, it has to be in the place I'm standing. (see above) It will be with a firearm. I will live. That is just plain fact. For anyone to break into my house, it will take lots of noise, and a little time to get the job done. At that point, I'm ready. I live alone, and no family in the area. Anyone who comes in the nighttime is well aware to give me notice. Those who don't.... well...think Darwin. For a daytime invasion, it still isn't safe to break in. Every room in my house is defensible, with tools in place.

I never have, and don't plan to do anything that would bring the police to my house, especially for a 'no knock'.
I can't decide for anyone else, that's just the way it is at my house.

greener · Post by **greener** » Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:25 pm

Every one does these "what-ifs." Probably good to think about once and a while.

In my house if they kick the door open and we are upstairs, all they are going to get is a 10-year-old TV and some silverware we haven't used in 3 years. That's why I pay for insurance. I probably won't go to them, on their ground, on their terms.

If they come upstairs, they go through a pinch-point to territory I control and I know the intent is not just simply burglary. Most of my New York Reloads are there.

If we are downstairs, the response would be different.