Time For A New Military Sidearm?

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:58 pm

thats too bad. it is a nice thought though....

CoastieN70 · Post by **CoastieN70** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:58 am

Although the Springfield XDm is a fine pistol, I seriously doubt that Springfield has the financial capibility to manufacture it in the USA as would be required by any Military contract.

Besides if we are to move to a non 1911 base .45acp sidearm, S&W's M&P45 is ready to fill the need.

We don't need to line the pockets of another foreign company when we can do it with a quality USA product. Of course, US Labor is it's own worse enemy; case in point Colt. FN kicked their butts for the M16 contract and is about to do so again with the M4. Why(?), labor costs. Colt is a Union Shop in CT, FN is a non-union shop in SC. FN bought U.S.Repeating arms and asked for consessions, Union Labor gave them the "finger" because they thought that they were an American Icon. FN closed the CT operation and now Winchester Model 70's are made in SC and Winchester Model 94's are made in Japan.

Don't get me wrong, I love my country and I am not anti union. I'm just saying our labor leaders need to get their act together...

Hakaman · Post by **Hakaman** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:28 am

Coastie, there is much to agree with in your post, but I think corporate america needs to show us the way first, by not being so frickn greedy. They ask the workers to take concessions while they get big bonuses (and I mean big!).
Haka

KAZ · Post by **KAZ** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:05 am

Haks right that there is plenty of blame to go around. If, any product/company/city/state can't meet the market price/quality point without counting on bailouts from taxpayers they are in an unsustainable position, and had better come up with a balance or, be allowed to go out of business.

greener · Post by **greener** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:33 am

If I recall correctly, when they decided to go to 9mm, the trials were rigorous and very competitive. Beretta won and S&W was among the top finishers. I don't think S&W is making many all-steel, non-1911's now. If they went out now for new, competitive bids at higher caliber, would they allow guns that aren't all steel?

Hakaman · Post by **Hakaman** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:58 am

would they allow guns that aren't all steel?

Ok, I would like to know the pros and cons of steel vs polymer.
I'll start off by saying the obvious advantage to poly is weight.
Haka

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:18 pm

Hakaman wrote:
would they allow guns that aren't all steel?
Ok, I would like to know the pros and cons of steel vs polymer.
I'll start off by saying the obvious advantage to poly is weight.
Haka

chaper and faster to produce plastic frames than machining steel

poly flexes on recoil making felt recoil less

there are 2 pros for ya haka

ruger22 · Post by **ruger22** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:53 pm

bgreenea3 wrote: chaper and faster to produce plastic frames than machining steel

Which explains what I read that Ruger's sales are up 85% in past year, and profit is up 5 1/2 times that, 480%. The profit percentage on poly guns must be huge compared to metal. Article was in a local paper, about Ruger making the Fortune 100 list.

My number one con is therefore that I would feel ripped off buying a plastic gun. Number two, I just don't like the feel and balance of plastic guns. The surface tends to get fuzzy with use. I've seen a couple of cracked ones.

I could never believe it can last like a steel or even aluminum frame. I don't think people in 2060 will be admiring 80 year old Glocks alongside 150 year old S&Ws and Colts.

blue68f100 · Post by **blue68f100** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:20 am

I hear a cost number many years ago (>10) on Glocks, that it was < 10% of what steel frames cost. Which is a big difference that makes on the bottom line.

CoastieN70 · Post by **CoastieN70** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:03 pm

Hakaman wrote:Coastie, there is much to agree with in your post, but I think corporate america needs to show us the way first, by not being so frickn greedy. They ask the workers to take concessions while they get big bonuses (and I mean big!).
Haka

I agree that it is a two way street but using U.S. Repeating Arms (Winchester Rifles) as an example, they were on their way down the toilet when FN bought them. The folks speaking for the employees thought that they had the new owners over a barrel. Boy were they wrong.

The owners of a company have the right to make as much profit as they like/can. They are under no obligation to "share" that profit with their workers. Good business practice although dictates that the owners pay their employees a decient wage, failure to do so only results in employee dissatifaction and a resultant poor product thus erroding profit.

We can go on and on about the money management makes vs the money the workers make but if my livelyhood ment making a concession on my salery or no salery, well...