Ammo and sighting-in a .357 rifle.

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Jack D
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Post by Jack D » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:24 pm

Do you crimp those HBWC's, BAOM? I see some have a cannelure, but many do not. Will my standard Lee crimp die work with these? I assume it will with the cannelure type, but what about the flush with case type? I'd probably prefer a cannelured bullet, since I'm familiar with those and know they will work with my dies. If it's flush with the case, do I need to crimp? All I have is this single shot and two revolvers. My Lee dies expand the neck during the powder dump. That expanded neck will need to be compressed back into position. Can I do that without actually crimping by adjusting the die?
Jack
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bearandoldman
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Post by bearandoldman » Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:34 am

Medicine Hat wrote:BAOM, Congratulations on the Great Grand thing. You have a few years on me, but my kids and grandkids must have sort of rushed things along, I have 3 Great-Grands, the oldest is 3 years. That is the only way I'm ever going to be 'great' anything. But I'm still a pup at 66 years, so who knows what is ahead.
Again, Congratulations

Jack D.- Thanks for listing that article.
Many shooting days to you both.
Thanks, pup, enjoy.
You have great day and shoot straight and may the Good Lord smile on you.
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bearandoldman
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Post by bearandoldman » Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:43 am

Jack D wrote:Do you crimp those HBWC's, BAOM? I see some have a cannelure, but many do not. Will my standard Lee crimp die work with these? I assume it will with the cannelure type, but what about the flush with case type? I'd probably prefer a cannelured bullet, since I'm familiar with those and know they will work with my dies. If it's flush with the case, do I need to crimp? All I have is this single shot and two revolvers. My Lee dies expand the neck during the powder dump. That expanded neck will need to be compressed back into position. Can I do that without actually crimping by adjusting the die?
I use a Lee 4 die set myself and crimp them the same as any other bullet I use. Seat them flush or sticking out about an 1/8 inch and have no problems. If you are just going to single shot them you would not really have to crimp.but in the revolver the recoil may make the bullet move. My crimp die is set the smae as I use for RNFP bullets.
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blue68f100
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Post by blue68f100 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:47 am

You treat them just like any other bullet. The 38/357 std crimp is the cannelure so the bullet should should have a grove for it. If not a taper crimp can be used. If you use the Lee FC die be carefull not to over crimp doing so will make the bullet loose in the brass and undersize.
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Post by charlesb » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:05 pm

Watch out. Low power jacketed rounds like to stick in the bore.

If you shoot another round with a bullet stuck in the bore, it's bad business.

Best not to shoot light jacketed loads. If you do, and it sounds funny one time, or you do not observe a bullet strike, don't shoot again before looking through the barrel to be sure it isn't obstructed.

Since your gun is a break-open single-shot and you are interested in light loads, it's probably a good idea to get into the habit of checking for a clear bore before loading every round.

Cheap insurance! Don't want to get hurt.

Have fun is the main thing.

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Post by Jack D » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:57 pm

Using my jacketed bullets for full magnum loads (or 38 SPl +P). I just loaded some of the 158 gr. GC bullets in front of 3.5 gr. TrailBoss for testing. Also loaded 100 rnds of 158 gr. XTP's in front of 16 gr. of 4227 (listed as max. in my recipe). I will watch for signs of excessive pressures. Going to Walupt Lake, WA this weekend and will have a chance to try them on things other than paper (rocks, cans, sticks, whatever). Might even catch a fish.
Jack
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Post by bearandoldman » Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:13 pm

Have a good trip Jack and hope you can catch at least enough fish to have a fresh fish dinner, hard too beat clean and throw them in the pan for the evening meal in camp. Thought the 3.2 load was working well for you so why up it to 3.5, tin cans will never know the difference. Those gas checks or the bullet must seal better then the 158 SW C's I have, am going to try some of them at 4.1 grains of Trail Boss tomorrow and if that don't work, I give up on them.
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Jack D
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Post by Jack D » Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:17 pm

bearandoldman wrote: Thought the 3.2 load was working well for you so why up it to 3.5, tin cans will never know the difference.
No special reason. That just happened to be the disc/measure that was in play, so I went with it. Doesn't hurt to try something new, now and then.

Leaving tomorrow AM.
Jack
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Jack D
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Post by Jack D » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:33 pm

bearandoldman wrote:Have a good trip Jack and hope you can catch at least enough fish to have a fresh fish dinner, hard too beat clean and throw them in the pan for the evening meal in camp. Thought the 3.2 load was working well for you so why up it to 3.5, tin cans will never know the difference. Those gas checks or the bullet must seal better then the 158 SW C's I have, am going to try some of them at 4.1 grains of Trail Boss tomorrow and if that don't work, I give up on them.
One thing I have noticed with the GC's. They shoot much cleaner. My SP101 stainless cylinder and barrel would be black with soot after shooting the 158 SWC without GC. But with these GC's there is little to no soot except on the very end of the cylinder and barrel where you would expect it.

I'm looking at the PD HBWC's that you've been using and see they are only available in .357 dia. Is that what you are using or do you have them sized to .358?

Only caught one fish and let it go. I rarely keep the fish I catch.....unless it's exceptional. Not fond of trout.
Jack
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Benjamin-Sheridan, 5mm (.20), scoped.

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Post by bearandoldman » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:16 pm

Jack D wrote:

I'm looking at the PD HBWC's that you've been using and see they are only available in .357 dia. Is that what you are using or do you have them sized to .358?
Evidently the GC gives them a good seal and the rifling grabs the bullet and spins it well to stabilize it, making them more accurate than the 158's we have been trying, by the way we did give up on them for a light load. They do shoot well if driven an +P or .357 mag velocities. We have been using them as cast and they are quite soft, the pressure blows the base out and they seal well and spin fast enough to get good accuracy. My shooting bud and II have used them, in both .357 and .38 cases in his Contender pistol, my 50th Anny Blackhawk.and his Smith 686, also my 1894C.
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Post by bearandoldman » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:08 am

Mu shooting bud and I have been enlightened about 158 SWC bullets. We have never been able to get them to shoot to our expectations of accuracy unless they have been drive up to .357 Mg velocities. It is the fact that they are too hard to grab the rifling properly until the pressure and velocity is up in the magnum range. It has nothing to do with sizing it definitely is the hardness, We bought bullets intended for a .357 mag and not for a .38 Special. After some research we discovered there is a difference in hardness according to different manufacturers. Most .38 Special bullet are 12 or less Brinell hardness and the .357 Mag's are 18 to 16 Brinell hardness and there is the cause for poor performance in a nutshell. The hollow base bullets we are using in our puff loads a10 Brinell, very soft and work very good.
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Post by Jack D » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:00 pm

bearandoldman wrote:Mu shooting bud and I have been enlightened about 158 SWC bullets. We have never been able to get them to shoot to our expectations of accuracy unless they have been drive up to .357 Mg velocities. It is the fact that they are too hard to grab the rifling properly until the pressure and velocity is up in the magnum range. It has nothing to do with sizing it definitely is the hardness, We bought bullets intended for a .357 mag and not for a .38 Special. After some research we discovered there is a difference in hardness according to different manufacturers. Most .38 Special bullet are 12 or less Brinell hardness and the .357 Mag's are 18 to 16 Brinell hardness and there is the cause for poor performance in a nutshell. The hollow base bullets we are using in our puff loads a10 Brinell, very soft and work very good.
I suspected that may be the case and the gas check seems to correct that problem. I sent email to Precision Delta to find out their HBWC bullet hardness, but no answer. Since they are swaged, I assumed they were a soft alloy. I believe my 158 gr. bullets are hard cast, but do not know the BHN number they would carry. I bought them on GunBroker and most I see on there now are saying "hard cast". Nothing more. For target shooting, and maybe even protection, I will look for softer bullets like those HBWC's that Precision Delta sell. I've been doing some research into the WC's performance for protection and it looks impressive at 600-800 fps MV. Just wondering how a bullet in a pistol that gives 600-800 fps in a snubbie would perform in a rifle with a 16.5" barrel. Would the added velocity cause leading in the rifle barrel?

This is typical of the articles I've found regarding WC's for defense; http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/24/a ... rs_200901/[/url]
Jack
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Post by bearandoldman » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:51 pm

Don't think I wold risk my reloads in a S?D situation, prefer to carry usually Hornady 158JHP's in the J frame or 230 JHP's in the Micro .45.
The LHBC's as stated are 10 Brinell and the 2.3 trarailboss loads chron at 630 fps in mt 1894C.
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Jack D
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Post by Jack D » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:46 pm

bearandoldman wrote:Don't think I wold risk my reloads in a S?D situation, prefer to carry usually Hornady 158JHP's in the J frame or 230 JHP's in the Micro .45.
The LHBC's as stated are 10 Brinell and the 2.3 trarailboss loads chron at 630 fps in mt 1894C.
You are correct about using reloads for SD. My concealed carry class, taught by two SWAT officers and one ex-special forces, told us to never use reloads for SD...if for nothing else...for legal purposes. But factory target loads with WC's???? A possibility. It is comforting to know that WC's do make a good viable SD load should the occasion arise. Actually, I have my Two snubs loaded with Speer Gold Dot. At a buck apiece, I don't use them for practice. It would be nice to be able to practice with the same load I use for SD. I don't practice with full mag. or even +P loads either.....that hurts.

Your Marlin has 18" barrel? What would that same load have (MV) in a 2" barrel? I like to find a good load that works in both my revolvers (SW "J" frame 2" and Ruger SP101, 3") and the 16.5" rifle. Then I'd not need to worry about grabbing the wrong box.
Jack
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Post by bearandoldman » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:02 pm

Jack, my friend shoots them in his Smith 686 and I use them in my 50th anny Blachawk and the work well to 25 yards after that we have not been able to hit the target carrier and they must become very unstable out about 35 yards or so. I have use them in my J frame also at 7 yards, jsut to shoot a soft load. For practice in the J frame I use 158fmj factory loads.
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