Powder used in .22 ?

toyfj40 · Post by **toyfj40** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:57 pm

Is there anything to be learned or understood about the
GunPowder used in the (more common/popular) .22 cartridges ?

I'm not a "reloader" (yet, anyway), but I'm aware of the vast
assortment of CenterFire Pistol, Rifle, ShotGun & BlackPwdr
"loads" and the immense books and databases of their uses.

I'm NOT aware of any general-information on which powder
is used in: CCI-Mini-Mags, Dyna-Pts, Rem.Targets, Federal...
or any of the many other often mentioned cartridges.

Knowing this is not likely to change what I use...
but it seems it would give some more insight into which/why/when
I would use a particular .22 in a Revolver, Pistol, Rifle, Varmit, Match
than just the "Bullet" and reputation/experience... -Thanks

Ref/Info:
http://www.CCI-ammunition.com/default.a ... &s1=4&s2=8
http://www.Remington.com/ammo/ballistics/ballistics.htm
http://www.ReloadBench.com/main.html

Post by **Bullseye** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:00 pm

Thanks again for some very useful links.

I hadn't heard of anyone comparing or advertising the type of powder found in specific .22 rimfire cartridges. This caused me to do some research and I didn't find any good data on the subject either.

I don't believe it would make a difference since no one can reload the .22 rimfire cartridge. Besides the trajectory is very flat for the round. The only other reason I could conclude is the manufacturer doesn't want to give away any proprietary information to his competitors. The real key to .22 quality for me is not just bullet weight but consistent case rim thickness and flawless ignition.

R,
Bullseye

seal killer · Post by **seal killer** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:07 am

Bullseye--

Re: ". . . flawless ignition."

Is that why Aguila uses Eley primers in some of its ammunition? It is not clear to me what part the primer may play in accuracy. Is it just that Eley primers are more reliable and contribute to "flawless ignition?"

Thanks.

--seal killer

boomer47 · Post by **boomer47** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 4:42 pm

Somewhere along the line on one of these gun forums I saw an article about .22 primer compound.
According to the article the primer compound starts off in a liquid form and is spun into the interior of the case rim then dried before the powder and bullet is loaded.
This article stated that one of the biggest reasons for misfires is that the primer compound is not evenly spread around the interior of the rim and the firing pin may hit a spot with little or no compound under it.
Eley and Federal are supposed to have the best priming system.
The article did not list any other makers. I get very few ftf's in my 512 and Hunter using Federal and Winchester ammo.
Firing pin mass and spring strength may have something to do with ftf's as I have never had one in my Marlin bolt action .22 rifle with many thousands of rounds put through it.
The Marlin firing pin is a little larger and has a more blunt nose the than the Rugers. May be that just be hitting a larger spot with more oomph makes the difference.

seal killer · Post by **seal killer** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:01 pm

boomer47--

Thank you for the explanation!

--seal killer

toyfj40 · Post by **toyfj40** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:48 pm

yes, thanks for replies/info.

Since CenterFire ReLoading makes a clear distinction
in the RIFLE powders vs PISTOL powders.
Rifle powders burn slower to accelerate the bullet
as it goes down the longer barrel.
Pistol powders burn faster to put the oomph behind the
bullet, while it is still IN the shorter barrel.
(Is this right ? like H335 for .223 and Universal for 9mm )
http://www.Hodgdon.com/smokeless/rifle.php
http://www.Hodgdon.com/smokeless/shotpist.php

PMC (Aguila, too) has:
"Match Pistol .22LR" with Mzl-Nrg=72 and 1000'/sec
AND
"Match Rifle .22LR" with Mzl-Nrg=98 and 1050'/sec
... perhaps those have Faster/Slower burning powder.
It would make sense to have a Pistol vs Rifle ".22LR" cartridge
on the market... unless the physics/mathematics/ballistics
indicates that it is just too miniscule a difference to be
reliably manufactured...

http://www.PMCammo.com/rimfire-ammo.php
http://www.PMCammo.com/rimfire-ballistics.php

Hmmm. I expect to begin a nearby (only 4mi) Range mbrship
in a couple weeks. Maybe I should try the PMC Pistol vs Rifle .22LR
cartridges each in a Pistol and Rifle and run them over my Chrony...
to see if there is some measureable difference.
I need to learn how to use that little gizmo anyway.
http://www.ShootingChrony.com/

Post by **Bullseye** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:08 pm

There's also a lot more to rimfire priming compound than just being a simple material that ignites when compressed. The formula can be quite complicated with binders, fuels, oxidizers, incandescent prarticles, and pressure sensitive explosive materials. These formulas vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. One supplier's formula may spread out easily into the rim. Another's may spray a higher volume of incandescent particles out in a fan pattern to ingnite the cartridge powder more evenly. Still another anneals their brass cases in a special way the promotes ingition more reliably.

Some manufacturers of precision target ammunition have very strict tolerances on the case dimensions, especially the rims and case wall thicknesses.

Bulk packed or budget ammo is just that. It's ammo that's made with a set of specifications that promotes high volume processing and mass production. A few missprimed rounds are expected within a given amount and figured into statistical probabilities for the ammo's overall performance.

Some cartridge cases have dimples in the bottoms of the brass casings to help the liquid priming material spread out towards the rim more evenly. Later when the rim is struck by the firing pin these dimples redirect the ignition upwards into the powder charge in the cartridge case.

If one producer has a prinming formula that's highly reliable, then they might collaborate with other suppliers if the price is right.

R,
Bullseye

Post by **Bullseye** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:35 pm

toyfj40 wrote: Since CenterFire ReLoading makes a clear distinction
in the RIFLE powders vs PISTOL powders.
Rifle powders burn slower to push the bullet down the barrel.
Pistol powders burn faster to put the oomph behind the
bullet, going down the short barrel.
(Is this right ? like H335 for .223 and Universal for 9mm )

In a way. Since a bullet travels down a rifle barrel for longer amount of time than a pistol barrel, the powder can burn a little slower to more gradually build up pressure and speed. A pistol barrel doesn't have that luxury of length so the powder has to burn very fast to get the bullet up to the highest speed possible within the shorter distance. Once the bullet exits a barrel the deceleration process begins, friction and gravity slow the bullet as it travels downrange. Another plus with slower burning powder is less of the bullet's lead is melted and vaporized off the backside of the projectile during detonation. This slower ignition reduces leading of the barrel and toxic vapors emissions from the ammunition. Keep in mind that slower burning powder is only a few nano or milliseconds slower burning than the faster burning powder.

R,
Bullseye

seal killer · Post by **seal killer** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:47 pm

Bullseye and All--

Do you know if primers use some kind of perchorate as the shock sensitive component? This is not a big issue with me, I have just always wondered.

--seal killer

Post by **Bullseye** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:28 pm

Priming compounds use three basic ingredients: lead styphenate, barium nitrate, and antimony sulphide. Any lead free ammunition or priming compounds uses a substitute for the styphenate called dianol. The lead products in primer compounds are a big part of the airborne lead hazard associated with ammunition.

Perchlorate is typically an oxidizer compound used in solid fuel rocket propellent. Ammunition priming compounds are more like the material found on the top of the old wooden (strike anywhere) matches.

R,
Bullseye

seal killer · Post by **seal killer** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:32 pm

Bullseye--

Thanks! That was a VERY informative answer.

--seal killer

Post by **Bullseye** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:15 pm

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:16 pm

This has been a very informative thread. But for all I have learned I've got one slightly off topic line question.

Is there any brand of standard velocity ammo, not match ammo, just regular std vel ammo, that consistantly works better in semi auto pistols?

TIA,

Joe

toyfj40 · Post by **toyfj40** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:06 pm

J Miller wrote:Is there any brand of standard velocity ammo,
not match ammo, just regular std vel ammo,
that consistantly works better in semi auto pistols?

I'm not interested in igniting (pun intended) a AmmoBrand-War...
but just a quick-reply...
I understand from my use and reading forums that CCI
has a more consistent bullet. The CCI/MiniMag to name just one.
Personally, I like Fed#510 as my cheap/plinker ammo, then
use Fed-AM22 "AutoMatch"... perhaps Fed#711B
on those rare occasions when I think I know what I'm doing...

I also know that PMC and Aquila make good ammo,
but I am considering general-availability... CCI is pretty common...
Also, I'd suggest you move above the "Bulk-priced" ammo...
anything that is $10/500 rounds (two-cents-A-pop) is not likely
what you are asking about... Nickel-A-pop gets you out of the
Price-competition category...
and under the Hand-Polished Lapua/Eley stuff... (jess-kidding).

My response is considering: avail/ good/ price ... CCI-MiniMag.
You may have a local source of something that is every bit as
good... like, I have a local gunshop that carries just about anything
Aquila makes... I have Colibri/ SuperColibri/ SE/ TargetMatch/ SSS/
PistolMatch/ RifleMatch ... but you don't find Aquila in Walmart or
the rural-convenience-stores.

Good luck. Let us know what you decide, that how WE learn.

Post by **Bullseye** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:50 pm

Joe in standard velocity ammuntion I like CCI SV. The standard velocity (SV) is made on the same production line as CCI Green Tag and is some pretty good stuff. It is moderately priced at $22 per 500. This is the brand that I started using with my Model 41s when everything else was causing them to choke on their ammo diet. It is also recommended for use by S&W those pistols and functions very well in them.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye