Too many shootings

Hakaman · Post by **Hakaman** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:45 pm

Amazing what's going on in society these days with all these shootings.
My question is: What consequences will there be to gun owners?
Do the liberals sure have some 'figurative' ammo to use against gun owners?

ruger22 · Post by **ruger22** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:14 pm

I think the shootings of late are an extension of the stress many are under due to the bad economy.

The liberals will always find "ammo" for their anti-gun whining. It's just a shame they're getting so much of it now. It's not pointed out that in the recent Empire State Building shootings, and Chicago yesterday, tight gun laws just helped guarantee that the victims were defenseless against the attacks.

greener · Post by **greener** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:01 pm

I don't know what the actual data say, but there seems to be more shootings in the press. Sooner or later, the constant hammer of "atrocities" will affect 2nd Amendment rights.

BTW: did you see that the Norwegian child killer got up to 21 years? I'm not a supporter of capital punishment, but there are some people who just need killing.

Post by **Bullseye** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:34 pm

If there's any justice in the world that guy in Norway will run into some one in prison like Jeffrey Dahlmer.

I think it was a Texan who said,"We like to kill those folks guilty of killin others in our state!"

R,
Bullseye

ruger22 · Post by **ruger22** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:31 pm

Bullseye wrote:If there's any justice in the world that guy in Norway will run into some one in prison like Jeffrey Dahlmer.

I think it was a Texan who said,"We like to kill those folks guilty of killin others in our state!"

R,
Bullseye

Texas used to have a "He needed killin'" defense. If you killed someone and had three people to testify that "he needed killin'", you were off the hook. I guess it's not on the books anymore...........

Biggjimm · Post by **Biggjimm** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:33 pm

You're exactly right ruger, if those people in new York were allowed to carry to defend themselves perhaps there may not have been so many people injured. I was talking to an anti-gun guy at the gun store today (he came in to buy fish bait) about those incidents & he started in with his anti rhetoric & I said go to any police or sheriffs dept. in the state & pull out 10 or 20 reports involving violence with a firearm & I guarantee that probably 95% or more involved illegally obtained guns. So tightening the gun control laws will not do a thing to prevent those incidents. There were gun control laws in effect when those crimes were committed so obviously that is not the solution. Most of the time when someone goes off the deep end there have been several opportunities for the "system" to have done something with that individual. I always hear the same thing from my Leo buddies & that is that when they take the bad guys in, half the time they're back on the street before the officer is done writing the report. I know the criminal justice system is not perfect but the answer is not to take away our guns. You've probably all heard the old adage "outlaw guns & only outlaws will have guns" The incident in new York city proves that to be very true. Well I better get off of my soap box now. Someone else may want to get on it. Have a great evening all. Biggjimm.

ruger22 · Post by **ruger22** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:41 pm

Most LEOs are in favor of responsible carry. They know they can't be everywhere, and their average response time is several minutes. A carry gun responds at hundreds of feet per second. Law enforcement usually just investigates something that was over with well before they arrive.

Post by **Bullseye** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:49 am

Unfortunately in the latest NYC incident, a lot of bystanders where hit by stray gunfire from the LEOs involved while confronting the armed suspect. I don't hold them at fault, this incident is just an unfortunate consequence of defending yourself against an armed subject in a crowded area, even for the proper authorities. This situation involved LEO stray shots, just imagine the spin on the thing if it had been a legally armed citizen who had to take down the subject and threw some stray rounds into bystanders. Bloomberg would be beating the "I told you so" drum with deafening sound. If you could swap the circumstances into the Colorado theater incident, with a CCW shooting the suspect and also hitting a few bystanders - the uproar from the Anti's would be thunderous!

R,
Bullseye

blue68f100 · Post by **blue68f100** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:56 pm

Was it NY that required their hand guns to have a trigger pull of 15+lbs, DAO. If this is the case and added stress it's no wonder there was bystanders hit.

We have enough gun laws in this country. They can't enforce what they have. It has been said over and over again "If guns are outlawed then Only the outlaws will have the guns". Like it has already been said criminals don't care about laws, it's on the law abiding citizens that get hurt.

I think to cut back on violent crime like this, is to have every one carrying guns. Make it Legal for anyone to open carry with a CCL provided they do not have a criminal record. Then when someone goes crazy there is someone to put a end to it quickly. It's a proven fact in states with relaxed CC violent crimes are down since there are more armed citizens.

Post by **Bullseye** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:03 pm

I just saw a surveillance cam video of the encounter between the armed suspect and the two uniformed LEOs was about five yards. To have that many misses at that distance is pitiful at best. I realize it was stress-fire, and one officer appeared to be shooting and scooting, but that's a pretty wide angular difference for aiming at close range.

R,
Bullseye

Post by **Bullseye** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:16 pm

Here's a link to the video

Empire State Video

greener · Post by **greener** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:47 pm

5 yards is generous. Lack of training?

greener · Post by **greener** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:59 pm

The police fired 16 rounds. Initial reports that bystanders were hit by fragments of shells and flower pots. Actual reports seem more in the line that they were hit by bullets.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/24/justice/n ... ?hpt=hp_t1

blue68f100 · Post by **blue68f100** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:08 pm

greener wrote:5 yards is generous. Lack of training?

What training???? Bean counters don't know the importance of practice/training and ammo is expensive.

ruger22 · Post by **ruger22** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:51 pm

So I guess now the anti-guns will be screaming for the police to give up their guns.........