Does a gun ban work?

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Hakaman
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Does a gun ban work?

Post by Hakaman » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:33 pm

A friend I used to work with says a gun ban needs to happen, because it would stop so much violence. We email back and forth throwing verbal jabs and facts to counter-act each other's point of view. Figuratively, I could use some verbal ammo to defend my view of a gun ban not working. Anybody care to give some backed up facts that would prove the results of a gun ban? I would appreciate your input.
Thanks, Haka

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Post by ruger22 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:19 pm

Tight gun laws and bans don't stop violence, they just sometimes change the weapons used.

Don't know about specific back-up, but the radio news said that during the length of the Zimmerman trial, 61 people, mostly teenagers, were shot in Chicago. Obtaining a gun legally in Chicago is so difficult, it's nearly a ban. But that didn't stop the guns used to shoot those people.

You can Google info on countries that have gun bans, but still have shootings. Mexico is a great example. True, fewer shootings in most of the countries, but they make up for it with knives and clubs.
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greener

Post by greener » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:48 am

What does he mean by ban and how does he define "work"? If ban means don't sell a certain kind anymore, such as "assault rifles", then the prices will go up and there will be a run on new ones like we just saw or are seeing. That wouldn't take them out of circulation, just make the millions currently owned more expensive.

If by ban, he means prevent ownership and everyone line up and turn them in, I don't think that will seriously happen in more than a few places. My guess is the law abiding folks or at least a high percentage would go grumbling to the turn in point, and maybe half would get turned in. So we'd cut the civilian inventory to 100 million? And how many of those would be in the hands of criminals?

I don't think a ban would work. Very restrictive rules really don't even work in places like New York and especially not Chicago.

Maybe in 50 years our kids will have been so brainwashed that they will agree to a gun ban. Even then, they will end up with an armed criminal class and unarmed victims.

I've not used a firearm in self-defense in over 40 years and that one was just brandishing the revolver, which seemed to give the guy other thoughts about his road rage. I hope to never need one. But I sure feel better having one than not.

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Post by Bullseye » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:38 am

Remember debating guns with a liberal is an exercise in futility. They only agree if you discuss their point of view. You'll spend time researching facts and when you introduce them, the facts will be swiftly dismissed or ignored.

There's plenty of examples of failed gun control around from many foreign countries to our own large urban cities.

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Post by bearandoldman » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:50 am

Bullseye wrote:Remember debating guns with a liberal is an exercise in futility. They only agree if you discuss their point of view. You'll spend time researching facts and when you introduce them, the facts will be swiftly dismissed or ignored.

There's plenty of examples of failed gun control around from many foreign countries to our own large urban cities.

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Post by stork » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:22 am

Never argue with an idiot.
They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with their vast experience.

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Post by blue68f100 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:39 pm

You could bring up the fact that states that have a large percentage of CC (guns in the good guys hands) have a lower violent crime. Bad guys don't like their victims armed where they can fight back.

Ask him prohibition worked?

As the saying goes if guns are banded only the Criminals will have guns. Then they have a free rain since there is no resistance.
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Post by Hakaman » Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:33 pm

I basically told him, almost exactly, the other day just what BE mentioned. I realize
you can't change the mind of a liberal gun hater, even when presenting plain facts.
I think I like 'stirring the pot' up a little and was looking for ammo to do so. I'm actually
having some fun in the process. They keep bringing up their ideas of why guns are
bad, and when I respond, they twist things around and think they're so smart.
Thanks for your posts, having fun,
Haka

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bearandoldman
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Post by bearandoldman » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:31 pm

Hakaman wrote:I basically told him, almost exactly, the other day just what BE mentioned. I realize
you can't change the mind of a liberal gun hater, even when presenting plain facts.
I think I like 'stirring the pot' up a little and was looking for ammo to do so. I'm actually
having some fun in the process. They keep bringing up their ideas of why guns are
bad, and when I respond, they twist things around and think they're so smart.
Thanks for your posts, having fun,
Haka
Ask him what prohibition did for Detroit?
You have great day and shoot straight and may the Good Lord smile on you.
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Hakaman
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Post by Hakaman » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:36 pm

bearandoldman wrote:
Hakaman wrote:I basically told him, almost exactly, the other day just what BE mentioned. I realize
you can't change the mind of a liberal gun hater, even when presenting plain facts.
I think I like 'stirring the pot' up a little and was looking for ammo to do so. I'm actually
having some fun in the process. They keep bringing up their ideas of why guns are
bad, and when I respond, they twist things around and think they're so smart.
Thanks for your posts, having fun,
Haka
Ask him what prohibition did for Detroit?
Wow, Detroit is reaping what it has sown over the last # of decades, starting
with Thy Highness, Coleman Young!
Last edited by Hakaman on Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Bullseye » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:08 pm

Once a free society becomes self-aware it can get something for nothing it becomes a society in decline. Big labor's draw has always been a very high hourly return and huge benefits packages for normal-to-little effort. They basically priced themselves right out of a job. Detroit grew on this type of environment and then failed to adapt as the work force changed. Much like field crops in a long drought, it is withering on the vine from a lack of tax base revenue. People migrate! Once the good paying jobs disappeared they moved on, as they have throughout history. If Detroit is to fix itself, it has to adapt to the changing times and morph into a new city that has a more balanced approach toward the job spectrum to attract new residents. Doing the same thing for over sixty years has not solved the problem.

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Post by bearandoldman » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:11 pm

Bullseye wrote:Once a free society becomes self-aware it can get something for nothing it becomes a society in decline. Big labor's draw has always been a very high hourly return and huge benefits packages for normal-to-little effort. They basically priced themselves right out of a job. Detroit grew on this type of environment and then failed to adapt as the work force changed. Much like field crops in a long drought, it is withering on the vine from a lack of tax base revenue. People migrate! Once the good paying jobs disappeared they moved on, as they have throughout history. If Detroit is to fix itself, it has to adapt to the changing times and morph into a new city that has a more balanced approach toward the job spectrum to attract new residents. Doing the same thing for over sixty years has not solved the problem.

R,
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Post by Bullseye » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:12 pm

Sometimes you just have to 'call-em as you see-em'!

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Post by Hakaman » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:46 pm

Big labor's draw has always been a very high hourly return and huge benefits packages for normal-to-little effort.
I was in a union in the electrical industry, and many of the workers were nothing but spoiled babies who want the money without doing the work. It was one of my biggest frustrations while working, as I am retired now. It has made unions look like gluttons. If an individual needs discipline, or even dismissal, it is nearly impossible to do so because the unions back these useless employees. It's almost like they can't, or couldn't , see the big picture of how this eventually destroys the union. Like you said, it is a part of the cancer that destroyed the city. Can you imagine the anxiety city workers have these days over the possible loss of pension, health care, and other benefits? One of the reasons I retired was that I didn't like working in detroit suburbs with the crime and lack of police protection. Now it's even worse and employees were not allowed to carry a SDGun. It's really hard to believe how a city would be so stubborn to change for their own good, but when the money is rolling in, who cares about the future is their motto.

greener

Post by greener » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:26 pm

I heard that the bankruptcy filing was negated by a judge who said decreasing public employee pensions was unconstitutional and that it insulted President Obama who saved Detroit from failure. (or something).

I haven't noticed that the rest of Michigan, the rest of the country or the White House is showing much interest in ponying up the $18 billion to bail the city out.

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