Bird Shot vs. Buck shot for HD

greener · Post by **greener** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:20 am

Gun blast video is fairly persuasive for #8 bird shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq3RVvL9ZjU

Hakaman · Post by **Hakaman** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:19 pm

I worry more about over penetration then under. I sure wouldn't like to get
hit by the #8 BS, that looks like the meat got ripped up pretty good. I still
opt for my Kahr PM9, it's easiest.

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:35 pm

Bird shot is for birds.... it'll make a nasty wound but won't penetrate deep enough to actually stop a threat. #4 buck would be the minimum I would recommend for home defense.

greener · Post by **greener** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:33 pm

I thought the penetration through the ribs and shoulder, damaging the shoulder bones looked pretty good. Don't think I'd stand at 20 feet and test a load of #8 bird shot to see if it would penetrate.

charlesb · Post by **charlesb** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:48 pm

I alternate #4 buck and slugs, with buckshot for the first round.

Home invaders today often employ body armor, so I'll be aiming just under the chin, if it comes to that.

To me, the desire to see an invader DRT, and to shock and terrify any companions the bad guy might have along outweighs any concern about over-penetration.

If I end up having to patch up some sheet-rock and clean up a lot of blood etc. then so be it.

It all goes back to the principle of being judged by twelve rather than carried by six. - Stopping the bad guy right then and right there is job #1, I have family to think of.

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:33 am

greener wrote:I thought the penetration through the ribs and shoulder, damaging the shoulder bones looked pretty good. Don't think I'd stand at 20 feet and test a load of #8 bird shot to see if it would penetrate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIfilArIHlY

watch and decide for yourself.... he does a good comparson.

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:46 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GqZaVQW7O4

#4 buck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HuVkXLreWE
foster slug

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbFLY9OIqPA

00 buck

Hakaman · Post by **Hakaman** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:45 am

There's no question buckshot will do a better job in stopping an intruder, but
most people live in areas where it's dangerous for penetration through your walls then
through your neighbor's walls, possibly killing them. You don't have to obliterate the bad
guy to stop him. I can't imagine anybody not stopping after getting a full dose
of #8 birdshot, with more to follow if needed. There are more things to consider
then just stopping power.

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:57 pm

the "experts" consider the acceptable penetration in ballistic gel for defensive loads to be 12"-18" . that would be enough oomph to get to the vital organs, the FBI says the only way to get a "stop" is to geet to the vital organs (data from the 84 Miami shootout). #8 or #6 CAN stop someone but it would be a "pshychological stop" simalar to someone stopping at the sound of racking a pump action .

as to over penetration if you miss, 00 buck is soft lead not hard cast and deforms easily and loses energy after impact. so while it may got through an interior sheetrock wall, insulation, exterior wall plywood sheeting, then siding, it would loose considerable energy and MIGHT have enough energy left to dent your neighbors siding. the pellets are only eaqual to a 32 auto after all....

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:49 pm

I took a shooting call a couple months back a guy shot at another guy from 25-30 yards with birdshot, the pellets that hit him bounced off his Carhart jacket the ones that missed barely dented the siding. and that was out of a bolt action goose gun.

greener · Post by **greener** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:03 pm

25-30 yards is a tad longer than the bedroom. But you convinced me.

I suppose the shot gun is better than making sure the .357 is aimed at a wall std.

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:41 am

that 357 will penetrate further than 00buck. especially with a hardcast or jacketed boolit.

where 00 buck has the advantage is you get 9 projectiles per bang, noone can shoot their 9mm that fast. not even jerry Mikulek

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:42 am

intersetingly my Dept only issues foster slugs for our patrol shotguns (and less lethal stuff) because there is only 1 projectile per bang to account for. and they are wicked effective to longer ranges....

greener · Post by **greener** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:45 am

bgreenea3 wrote:that 357 will penetrate further than 00buck. especially with a hardcast or jacketed boolit.

That's why you wait until your shot will end up in a wall stud

charlesb · Post by **charlesb** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:45 am

When it comes to addressing a home invasion, a "Shoot and Release" policy makes no more sense than it does for hunting big game.

When it comes to defending my family, I want the stop to be instant and definitive. - I do not want some injured criminal laying on my carpet, spraying my home with projectiles, endangering not only my family but also the neighbors.

Nope, I want them DRT - period. All other considerations are secondary at best.

I'll save the bird shot for the birds.