The Unmarked, Matte-Gray Crown Vic

charlesb · Post by **charlesb** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:18 am

As usual, Bill hits the nail on the head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL-1tm2d ... gest-vrecs

What they don't seem to comprehend is the way this erodes respect for the police instead of building on it, as they apparently like to imagine.

Phone call for Barney Fife.

The deeper they get into this "Us Vs Them" mentality concerning the public that they exist to serve, the harsher the eventual blow-back is going to be, and the longer it will take for the service to regain the general level of respect they once earned and enjoyed.

Not to mention funding and public support.

ruger22 · Post by **ruger22** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:09 pm

I can understand law enforcement wanting more comfort than, say, the tailored, shined oxford shoe look of years past. Chasing someone down an alley or over fences in that would have been hard. I also think the SWAT type gear is getting to be overdone, too. The regular patrol guy or walking beat cop (I guess there a few somewhere?) doesn't need to, and shouldn't, look like a soldier. What's next, 50 cals on the hood or in a turret on the roof?

Also, around here every vehicle has a license plate, even the federal cars and unmarked state police. An unmarked law enforcement vehicle with no sort of ID at all should not be allowed.

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:25 pm

I didn't hear him say he actually saw the driver just supposed it was a "middle aged pudgy white guy" he inferred it was the police and that he was immediately in the wrong. here's a thought, it was a volenteer Fire fighter in his Personal vehicle decked out with LEDs like Jolly volley's do, and the Temp tag in the window wasn't seen through the tint in the ex police car he just bought surplus at auction. I'm thinking this mainly because ford stopped production on the Crown Vic in 2011 and all agencies are swtiching their fleets over to the new fords, dodge's, or chevies..

Police are required to have Plates on their Vehicles, if they are an Undercover, its a normal Plate like everyone else's.

this fella makes some assumptions might be true might not but he doesn't have any proof to support his theories.

A guy in utlities with a black t-shirt, duty belt, and a helmet is a swat operator. how about hes a Bike cop wearing his bike helmet directing traffic? a propper uniform for that duty I think.

I understand the whole militatization of police thing he's going off on but his view is narrow and his arguments are factless.

charlesb · Post by **charlesb** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:34 pm

I just went back and watched the video again, listened again too.

Bill did say that he saw the driver. He did say that if undercover, the Crown Vic was not be the way to go. He did not offer 'proof' as doing so would involve having to pull the guy over. One must note that absence of proof is not proof of absence. He noted the little dome that personally, I have only noticed on official vehicles here in west Texas.

Bill did not offer arguments, he did state what he saw though and offered opinions. I found his opinions to be quite reasonable.

Part of the problem with militarized police is that wannabees are generated, they see a social group that arrogantly intimidates the public and some folks with stunted personalities wannabee that way too. This may very well be what Bill saw, but I wonder about the little dome. - It might have been that somebody simply stole the plates from that car, it's happened before, and the driver doesn't always notice right away.

When it gets to the point though where acting stupidly aggressive makes you look like a cop, then that's bad for everybody, most especially the cops.

- Another good reason that militarization, and the 'Us Vs Them" attitude among law enforcement folks has got to go. - I would say "before somebody gets hurt", but it's a bit too late for that.

About once a month, I end up reading about either a police officer or a citizen getting shot in the process of a 'no-knock' raid where ID is not given, or about it being SOP to shoot people's pets, or about a police officer who looks and acts like a gang-banger getting shot while doing his job.

It would be nice to be able to say that only a tiny minority of police officers are involved in these kind of scenarios, but these stories are all too common now.

The thing about a police uniform that is recognizable as such is that it protects the officer, and citizens who encounter them. Impersonating a police officer is illegal, realistic bogus police uniforms are not easy to come by, so some criminals dress up in police uniforms but not very often. - Black or camo "Tacticool" rigs though are a dime a dozen and gangbangers go for those getups precisely because they can't be prosecuted for impersonating an officer when they wear it. They are quite popular for home invasions.

Faced with somebody who knocks and identifies themselves, then shows a warrant before coming into my home, and who further identifies themselves by wearing a legitimate police uniform with a badge prominently displayed, my first impulse is going to be to cooperate so any misunderstanding or mistake can be straightened out. Faced with an aggressive 'no-knock' home invader wearing black though, my first reaction will be a load of #4 buck under their chin, and belatedly hollering "police" won't do a thing to keep them alive long enough to hurt a member of my family - or my dog.

That's the difference between acting like a police officer - and acting like a punk gang-banger home invader.

Clothes make the man.

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:39 pm

Charles, after 14 years as a cop the only "us vs them" I see in Law Enforcement, is "us" the people who look to catch those who do people wrong and take advantage of them and "them" the peoplewho do wrong to others.

there are "them" in alll walks of life, even in the police, as we are talkig about people and people are fallable.

the "us" is out there too not all wear a badge.

the "us" are the good people, "them" would be the evil in the world.

charlesb · Post by **charlesb** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:47 pm

Glad to hear that, but to be honest I already assumed that in your case. Nobody in this forum strikes me as being part of the problem.

Good cops are still the majority, especially where I live now, but the good/bad ratio is moving in the wrong direction today and this change is rooted in attitudes that go along with the militarization trend.

I'm depending on guys like you to speak up when and if you see something fishy going on. Some of the new police officers are enamored of militarization and do not have the maturity or the experience that can keep them out of trouble with that.

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:15 am

now as to no Knock warrants.....

Any Warrant is a order to search or arrest signed by a judge. A judge is elected. the Leagal standard is to "Knock and announce". to get a No Knocl warrant, the police must convince the judge, an elected official, that either the evidence sought will be destroyed, or lives are endangered if the Knock and announce happens. As an elected judge how freely would you give those out?

so if you have the police doing a "no knock " raid on someones property, you can be certain of a couple things. first, it will be a felony level case. second, the judge agrees that a no knock will be safer than a knock, or there is a high likelyhood that evidence will be destroyed...

as for the black or cammo BDU's, a lot of a SWAT teams mission is dealing with barricaded subjects. with that you are sitting on a perimeter, concealment and utlity trumps shiny oxfords and brass. to put n perspective go put on your best Sunday go to meating suit and shoes, and then go rabbit hunting.... it would be shredded rather quickly.

we are not trained to shoot dogs, but at times it does become nesseccary. Would you shoot a dog over getting bit? I've found pepper spray more effective on mean dogs. think of going to the house in the neighborhood with the nastiest meanest junk yard dog, and you have no other choice but to go there, is it your fault they raised a mean nasty dog?

there are a whole lot of generalities that are made about cops, and usually its by someone with an agenda and too narrow sighted to see the forest for the trees.... (not you Charles!) they say this one cop pone time did this one thing so all cops do that all the time, which we know cannot be true.

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:36 am

Anther thing I hear from folks is that if you get in a self defence Shooting (defensive gun use), you should not talk to the polie at all untill you talk to an attourny. now I see that as pure malarkey.

if you get sucker punched by someone and you end up fist fighting them, you tell the cops "he jumped me I defended myself and whupped him 'till he quit trying to hit me" you just won't call 911 say you had to defend yourself, the police show up and you the stand mute... the other guy will say you tarted it and you go to jail for assault.

same with a Defensive gun use. you shoot a guy breaking ito your castle you call 911 tell the operator what happened, then you should tell the police "this guy kicked in this door, had that big knife in his hand, and I thought he was going to do bad things to me my wife and maybe my housecat Morris, I had no choice but to shoot him. this is where my gun is there is, his big knife is there, he kicked in that door, and these are my injuries. I'll answer any questions you have later after I talk to a lawyer."

this gives the police a direction to look at other than all the info they have is "a 911 ca saying you just shot someone"

blue68f100 · Post by **blue68f100** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:44 am

Back to the Crown Vic.

In this area there was an cop impersonator stopping young ladies at night, then either robing them or sexual assault. The car description matched a crown-vic , no front plate and flashy lights inside. They finally caught the guy doing these.

greener · Post by **greener** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:53 am

Everything Whittle described can be bought easily. I've also seen quite a number of cars in matte gray. Looks like people are priming cars and driving around that way for a while.

I've been thinking about fixing the white paint on my '89 Camry with a chrome wrap, but a matte gray finish might be better. Now off to find the light bar. I wonder if Whittle will mistake me for a cop?