Ammo and sighting-in a .357 rifle.

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bearandoldman
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Post by bearandoldman » Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:32 am

Have to disagree with you on the lube theory. Gun has not been cleaned in ages as it has shown no problems. Fired 12 rounds of the 158's, was not satisfied as they will did not shoot well. Started shooting the 148LHBSWC's. Dead on target with the first shot even after a bullet and lube change?
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blue68f100
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Post by blue68f100 » Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:59 am

Cleaning of the gun does and does not come into play. Every time you shoot a lead bullet the lube is distributed down the barrel. If you shoot jacketed it removes some of the lube depending on how many rounds you have shot. I have not seen a lube for lead that would coat the barrel of a rifle in 1 shot or 10 for that matter. This is where the 1 round/inch of barrel rule came from. Then as you change bullet lubes you then have a mix till the old has been replaced.

I know you have shot many 22 rounds some copper flash and some with wax lube. I have seen Fed Bulk shoot like Ely target for the first few rounds before it opens up to the std grouping. This is the effect of what a good lube can do vs a cheap one. It's more demanding in a rifle vs a pistol.

Hollow Base bullets have an advantage when it comes to sealing off to the bore, ideal for light loads. They are normally a heavy bullet design with less lead, hollow base. I have always use 2400 for my powder when it comes to lead and 38/357. Now it's not very good on light loads, dirty. But when you get to medium and up it shoots pretty clean. It's a slower burning powder when compared to bullseye. I have heard good thing about Trailboss but never have tried it.

You have hammered this pretty good.
David

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bearandoldman
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Post by bearandoldman » Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:22 pm

Blue, have been doing some thinking and we have tried many powders and loads in those 158 SWC's and the only way you can get them to be accurate is to get them up in the +P or .357 mag are so they will spin fast enough to stabilize. They are just too hard to get what we wanted which was a low recoil light load for 25 yard fun shooting, The hollow base WC's are very soft lead and seal well in the rifling with a light load. We have tried most every kind of powder and if I remember they did shoot well with around 8 grains of 231.
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Post by Jack D » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:05 pm

If I understand correctly, a soft cast bullet like these http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =248620363 should shoot well in my 16" barrel, sized to .358 in front of ~3 gr. TrailBoss. Or not? If they will, they would be a much better buy than GC at double the price. These figure to be about .09/bullet and GC's .18-.20/bullet (shipping included). I suspect that my stock of cast bullets are hard cast in the BHN 18-22 range, but I don't know that. My thinking is that the BHN 10 bullets will seal better than the BHN 18-22 bullets that I'm probably using now. I'm about to run out of those so need to buy more and would like to get some good ones at the cheapest price possible.

My objective is a light, accurate, load for targets in my shop that have little noise so as not to disturb the neighbors. Range is 50' max (if I clear out all the vehicles). If they (the loads) are quiet enough, I can even shoot outdoors and get longer ranges......like 50 yds. into a dirt bank. My closest neighbors are about 100 yards from me with thick forest between.
Jack
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bearandoldman
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Post by bearandoldman » Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:29 am

Jack, as I have stated before , we could not get 158SWC's to shoot we;; until the velocity was pushed up to +P pr.357 velocities. Bullet is evidently just too hard to grab the rifling well,have tried in my 1894C,, My Blackhawk and my bud;s 686, with the same results. This bullet shoots well in all of them with 2.3 grains of TrailBoss, it is a 148LHBWC swaged bullet. Get them from Precision Delta at $68.00/1000 but they have a minimum order of 2000. Have also used in the past the same weight bullet from Hornady and Speer and they worked well also. The hollow base get you a good seal like a Minnie ball in a frontstuffer.her is a target I shot yesterday at 25 yards, about 15 rounds and the white circle is 1-3/8 dia. also a pic of the bullets. We did get a chance to chrono them yesterday so one of the other shooters had one in use, 633fps, my guess was about 600.
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Post by blue68f100 » Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:01 am

You have located the problem, bullet not sealing off to the bore at low velocity. This causes gas leakage and normally cause leading too. Which is why I kept asking if it was leading the barrel and where at. Which indicates the lead bullets are too hard and/or not sized specifically for your bore. The hollow base does seal off at low velocity. Another advantage of the hollow base is it's length. More bullet in contact with the rifling to spin the bullet. Ideal if your shooting a compact 2-4" barrel gun.

PD has been around a very long time and makes a very good bullet. If you can get a soft bullet and sized correctly to your bore you will be fine. Sometimes if you ask a supplier they can size to fit your barrel. 2000 bullets is not really that many if you plan on shooting the gun. If you shoot 50 rounds/week you exceed that. The price quoted if I recall includes shipping. You have several guns that are 38/357 caliber, you will have more food for them. Have you looked at Berry's Plated bullets? They will sell small quantity but you have an added charge if under $50. Their plated bullets are sized more like lead, oversize. If you shoot in a restricted/closed area the Plated bullets will be a good choice. With no exposed lead you will not be breathing the toxic air.

Another option is ask around at your local shooting range and see if anyone is casting their own bullet. If so see if you can get a small quantity from them.
David

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Post by bearandoldman » Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:45 am

Blue, these are swaged and not cast bullets and have no parting line on them and besides that they WORK GOOD, so no sense in looking for anything else. USe their prices are very good and quick delivery, especially since it includes shipping, My bud and I split the order, but the way we shoot them they got used pretty fast, They work good in my Blackhawk and 1894C in .38 cases and my bud;s 686 and TCpistol in .357 cases. Just a good low recoil, low noise fun shooting load for 25 yard, we can not get them on paper at 50 yard, they must get pretty unstable out past 35 yards or so, they have the same ballistic coefficient as a small trash can.
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Post by Jack D » Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:44 pm

Thanks for the information. The HBWC is intriqing. Ordering 2000 is a lot of $$$ for me to lay out at one time. So looking for other suppliers, I stumbled onto this article. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... _97170894/. It seems to bear out what BAOM has been saying all along. I found a supplier of Speer HBWC's in 250 lots and may have to go with this smaller quantity for trial purposes. Assuming they shoot well in my rifle AND handguns, I can go for larger quantities later.

I'm thinking this load would be good for small varmints around the homestead, too. I remember back in my bow days, we used blunt arrows for small game....designed more for shock affect rather than penetration. It seems to me that wad cutters at low velocities would have a similar affect.

I haven't thought about plated bullets. I may buy a small quantity of those, too, for testing. I haven't been too worried about poisoning the air. My shop is36'x60' and it takes some time to fill the air. Lead is heavy. It is the lube and powder smoke that tends to linger. When that gets bad, I open a 20' door. At my age, lead poisoning is not something I really need to think much about.
Jack
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bearandoldman
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Post by bearandoldman » Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:31 pm

Interesting article Jack, very much enjoyed. That light load does work, go for the buy, I quit saving my money for my old age as I am already old, I am spending on important items.
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Jack D
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Post by Jack D » Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:11 pm

bearandoldman wrote:Interesting article Jack, very much enjoyed. That light load does work, go for the buy, I quit saving my money for my old age as I am already old, I am spending on important items.
I hear you there. I'm at that point, too. Trouble is, my other half does not share my passion. I still haven't told her about the "new" gun. All he11 will break loose when she finds out (I think). She has mellowed with age , however, so there is hope. :lol:
Jack
Ruger SP101, 3", .357, CT laser
Ruger SR22P, CT laser
Ruger LCR22, CT laser
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Benjamin-Sheridan, 5mm (.20), scoped.

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Post by bearandoldman » Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:07 pm

Guess you are not old enough yet Jack. Ma and I have never had any problems in damn close to 54 years now. I have always worked and she raised the children and took care of the house and she says. as long as I made the money, I should have the right to decide where it is spent.
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Post by blue68f100 » Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:39 pm

Nice article on HB WC.

Another thing to consider is what the energy prices are going to do. Once you decide what works for you, stock up while energy prices are kind of stable.

I have 2k round of Berry's 185gr HBRN 45acp. These are amazing accurate at mouse loads. Being a RN there is no feeding issues in 1911's.

btw. If my wife new how many bullets I had stuffed under my work bench she would have a cow. .... 20k 9mm 124RN, 4k 45acp 185gr HBRN & 230gr RN. I have primers and powder to go with the bullets. :D :D
David

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Jack D
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Post by Jack D » Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:54 pm

I see Cabela's has some 148 gr. HBWC's, plated, in 250 lots. There's one in Eugene (Springfield) now. So a trip to town is in order.

BAOM, you do have a few more years behind you. I'm coming up on 72 and been married 47 of them.

My inventory is low right now, but those hard ones are about gone. Have 100 XTP's and 50 or so Remington's HP. Then the 150 158 gr. SWC GC's. Time to order more, but in smaller quantities until I find the one that works.
Jack
Ruger SP101, 3", .357, CT laser
Ruger SR22P, CT laser
Ruger LCR22, CT laser
Ruger 10/22 Deluxe, scoped
H&R Handi, .357 customized, laser, red dot, scope, weapon light, bipod
Benjamin-Sheridan, 5mm (.20), scoped.

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bearandoldman
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Post by bearandoldman » Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:10 pm

Jack D wrote:I see Cabela's has some 148 gr. HBWC's, plated, in 250 lots. There's one in Eugene (Springfield) now. So a trip to town is in order.

BAOM, you do have a few more years behind you. I'm coming up on 72 and been married 47 of them.

My inventory is low right now, but those hard ones are about gone. Have 100 XTP's and 50 or so Remington's HP. Then the 150 158 gr. SWC GC's. Time to order more, but in smaller quantities until I find the one that works.
Wish there was a Cabelas near me, got to go over a 100 miles to get to one from here. Coming up on 79 in December and 54 in November.Going to be a great grandfather about Turkey time , first time for Ma and me.
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Post by Medicine Hat » Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:54 pm

BAOM, Congratulations on the Great Grand thing. You have a few years on me, but my kids and grandkids must have sort of rushed things along, I have 3 Great-Grands, the oldest is 3 years. That is the only way I'm ever going to be 'great' anything. But I'm still a pup at 66 years, so who knows what is ahead.
Again, Congratulations

Jack D.- Thanks for listing that article.
Many shooting days to you both.

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