Loaded Chamber ?

greener · Post by **greener** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:05 am

Amazing how your accuracy falls off when you have a full adrenalin charge and a pulse rate of 200. You would think LEO's would be better since they carry all the time, but I'm willing to bet they don't shoot much at all. I'm willing to bet that NYC doesn't put that much effort behind firearms proficiency. Bullets and paying the officers to go to the range cost money and time.

Hakaman · Post by **Hakaman** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:39 am

So no child should be allowed to play with one. But I also believe childern should not be afraid of one either, so gun education is required. As they get older I think all should be exposed to firearms and some shooting fun. Taking the mystery out of something helps curbs kids curosity. So their not likely to go looking for a gun that they know is in the house to explore/examine. Even if they are not secured from their access.

That's an amazing fact of human nature, curiosity always seeks the mysterious things, so "did" the cat.

You would think LEO's would be better since they carry all the time, but I'm willing to bet they don't shoot much at all.

From my limited experience, LEO's aren't the best shooters out there, I've witnessed it first hand. I don't think they practice much, not like most people suspect. I see them having trouble at 7 yds hitting an 8x11 target.

h

greener · Post by **greener** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:43 am

Hakaman wrote:
So no child should be allowed to play with one. But I also believe childern should not be afraid of one either, so gun education is required. As they get older I think all should be exposed to firearms and some shooting fun. Taking the mystery out of something helps curbs kids curosity. So their not likely to go looking for a gun that they know is in the house to explore/examine. Even if they are not secured from their access.
That's an amazing fact of human nature, curiosity always seeks the mysterious things, so "did" the cat.

You would think LEO's would be better since they carry all the time, but I'm willing to bet they don't shoot much at all.
From my limited experience, LEO's aren't the best shooters out there, I've witnessed it first hand. I don't think they practice much, not like most people suspect. I see them having trouble at 7 yds hitting an 8x11 target.

h

I'll have to introduce you to one who can do pretty well at 7 yards as long as he isn't shooting a .357 Blackhawk.

stork · Post by **stork** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:19 pm

The mediocre shooting ability of most of our local police, Highway patrol, County Sheriffs are a constant source of irritation to me. As some have already posted, these people are looked up to as carriers of weapons to protect the public.

They use our clubs range for certification and I have yet to see a target (yes I dig thru the garbage & look) that I would call acceptable. The size of the target and the close ranges (3-5-7-15 yards) should yeild groups no larger than my fist for all rounds shot. Yet they habitually are volleyball size groups (if that).

Ask me how many LE people actually practice in the range. I'm the range officer on large cal pistol night and have access to the firing line logs so I do know. Zero-Zilch-nada.

Stepping off my soapbox now.

Merry Christmas to you all, and especially Bullseye for providing this forum.

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:40 pm

According to a Government study. Bad guys who carry guns practice an average of 23 times a year LEO's on average 14.4 hr of range time.....

A lot of cops are not into shooting, or think that the dept should provide ammo and pay them to practice. or they just don't care. the michigan comission on law enforcemet standards recently made a REQUiRED course of fire for qualification to carry, we have guys at my dept that have shot the course blindfolded and scored high enough to qualify.

they had to make it easy enough for everyone to pass

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 6:22 pm

bgreenea3 wrote:According to a Government study. Bad guys who carry guns practice an average of 23 times a year LEO's on average 14.4 hr of range time.....

A lot of cops are not into shooting, or think that the dept should provide ammo and pay them to practice. or they just don't care. the michigan comission on law enforcemet standards recently made a REQUiRED course of fire for qualification to carry, we have guys at my dept that have shot the course blindfolded and scored high enough to qualify.

they had to make it easy enough for everyone to pass

What is it, they put you in a 12 foot square room with no windows and shut the door, if all shots hit the wall or door, you are qualified. Local Sheriff dept uses our range 3 times a year for a week for Quals. Local MSP SWAT team uses the range one morning a month no matter what the weather and some of those guys come pout and practice on top of that.

bigfatdave · Post by **bigfatdave** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 6:51 pm

I won't share the name of the agency that uses my local conservation club's range, because they do a lot of good things for the conservation club, and the pistol is NOT their primary weapon anyway.

But the holes in the ceiling joists, plus the amazingly lousy targets, and the close distances (I scavenge their .40 brass, so I know damn well they mostly shoot close in based on the brass distribution) is fairly sad, especially with the contrast of my own shooting.

If a mostly self-taught handgun shooter can do better than the pros, they need better training or more rimfire time, at least. Sometimes I'll find brass further back and some pretty respectable targets, but it seems the majority of this agency's shooters are barely passable, and not shooting at the right challenge/success ratio at all.

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:56 pm

BAOM i agree that MSP SWAT does a lot of shootin asdo most SWAT guys, and they do shoot on their own, but that is what brings the average UP your local SD has the range for a week 3x a year, that just enough to get everybody to shoot 3X a year for maybe 3 hours.....

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 4:48 am

bgreenea3 wrote:BAOM i agree that MSP SWAT does a lot of shootin asdo most SWAT guys, and they do shoot on their own, but that is what brings the average UP your local SD has the range for a week 3x a year, that just enough to get everybody to shoot 3X a year for maybe 3 hours.....

Have to agree with you on all your statements young Greener. SWAT has very rigid spec, talking to one of them as he was practicing one day when I was there and he was telling me about the normal SP specs and their and the SWAT specs were much higher. Now that I think about it the SD may be only twice during the summer, do not know about the rest of the year. Nor do I have any idea what the local city and townships do for their officers. That is a good reason form me to carry gun. Lots of guys with a CPL carry rarely, they say only when I go to the bad part of town and think I may need it. I tell them that I stay away from that part of town and ask them if the carry a spare tire in their vehicle. People talk about a well placed shot will do the job, hey ther BG, hold still while I take aim , please. You and I and your dad have different specs for our groups. I rarely ever really target shoot with a handgun, Six shot in pairs from a low ready shod be covered by my spread had at 25 feet is good enough. My normal carry is a 3 inch 1911.

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:00 am

most PD shoot twice a year for score, with little extra training other than qualification. it comes down to $$$..... Ammo cost isn't an issue its personnel. You're paying them to shoot, the range instructors to range instruct, and taking guys off the road to shoot so they aren't doing it on OT.
It gets quite expensive to pay the salaries, and most government admin don't see the failure to train liability...

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:22 am

bgreenea3 wrote:most PD shoot twice a year for score, with little extra training other than qualification. it comes down to $$$..... Ammo cost isn't an issue its personnel. You're paying them to shoot, the range instructors to range instruct, and taking guys off the road to shoot so they aren't doing it on OT.
It gets quite expensive to pay the salaries, and most government admin don't see the failure to train liability...

You can see their point in trying to keep costs down in these times of cutting jobs to save tax monies. Every one they take off road patrol or their other regular position they have to have some one else do that job. Many extra hours labor required to get the job done.

ruger22 · Post by **ruger22** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:46 pm

I would think a good LEO would practice on his own time and buy the ammo, if his department didn't do enough officially. After all, it's his butt out there on the line.

As to the LCI, mine got replaced with a stainless filler the first week I had the Mark III. It's covered in other posts on the LCI. I shaped mine internally like the LCI, except it stops at the chamber edge. I think it may actually help feeding and ejection that way.

The ideal Ruger .22 pistol would be a Mark II with the Mark III's mag release and scope mount taps. If only Ruger had done that..........

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 4:10 pm

ruger22 wrote:
The ideal Ruger .22 pistol would be a Mark II with the Mark III's mag release and scope mount taps. If only Ruger had done that..........

They did, it's called a MarkII 22/45, I have 3 of them. Polymer frames but thy all work and shoot fine. Sig and Glock really started something.

lund329 · Post by **lund329** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:56 pm

Downeaster wrote:One word: Lawyers.

Ditto on what he said....

blue68f100 · Post by **blue68f100** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:00 pm

Lund329 Welcome to the Forum.