I've been shooting the heck out of my MKIII. I can strip it and put it back together just about blindfolded, everything just eases right into place.
But, I've shot about 15,000 rounds through it now, and the rebound spring lost a couple of coils (but still worked), and I did a MAJOR boo boo that busted the extractor. (some on that later...)
So.... I decided it's time to replace most of the bolt parts and the extractor for sure (can't shoot without it!!) Replaced everything but the firing pin.
I just now tried to install the recoil spring. The big spring that sits on top of the bolt. Polished up the bottom of the little "U" shaped part so it would slide easy.
When I went to insert the mainspring assembly and finish it up, NO GO.
After looking at it, it turns out that the "bump" where the bar of the recoil assembly attaches to the "U" shaped piece at the end of that same recoil assembly was sticking out enough (into the hole the mainspring assembly inserts into), enough to keep the mainspring assembly from going into the hole without the need for a hammer!!!
(I didn't use the hammer yet)
When I had the 22/45, and later this gun as new, I had MAJOR issues putting that mainspring back into the hole! At the time it's blamed on various things.
But after seeing this, and how it's clearly the problem, I think this needs to be promoted, or told to "newbies" more.
They need to look at that bump and see how far it extends into the hole to see if that's the problem.
Not sure what I'm going to do at the moment. I used the old spring for now (the one working part) so I'm not being held up.
I'll probably look into using a hammer to peen it back into shape and see how that works, maybe some grinding and polishing.
If need be, I could post some photo's before I mess with it.
But I just don't recall this issue being mentioned when I had issues when I first got this (and the 22/45 that was driving me CRAZY!!).
Had I known about this issue, I could have done something about it on the spot. Instead I worked with the hammer a while, and eventually took the 22/45 back and got this one. It was better, but still a pain until I assembled it several times.
I think this ought to be at the top of your list for newbies with assembly problems. (as far as inserting the mainspring assembly goes anyway).
Or, was I absent that day and I just missed all that??? Let me know if you need photo's before I start jacking with it......
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I now know this was my problem, had to be (one of 'em anyway). Because I wanted a hammer to pound that mainspring assembly in from the bottom, but I couldn't get to it because the grip was in the way (thankfully).
I think if this is pointed out, and a solution (filing or something) then it would settle a good many new assembly problems)
Assembly issue, haven't seen mentioned before
Moderators: Bullseye, Moderators
Having the metal tab on the back of the recoil spring extend slightly into where the bolt stop inserts is normal. This semi-circular part will slide out of the way when the bolt stop is fully inserted into the receiver. That last little bit is under pressure, that is it takes a little extra force to seat the bolt stop so the little button top extends through the receiver.
When looking down through the bolt stop hole, just prior to inserting the bolt stop pin, that metal tab looks like it is partially blocking the hole. This is because the extractor spring is actually pushing back the bolt slightly from the breech face. When the bolt stop pin is fully inserted, the recoil spring will shift forward a little, and that tension keeps the bolt flush with the breech face overcoming the tension of the extractor spring. Usually that last little pop of the mainspring takes some force. I have to squeeze the mainspring housing hard to seat the bolt stop fully into the receiver. Sometimes I even have to give the bottom of the open mainspring assembly a little rap with the mallet to seat it fully.
Perhaps your metal tab is a little different shaped, but it doesn't sound that way to me. I'd be happy to look at a photo if you want post it here. I just checked through my photo library and I don't have a shot of the receiver with the bolt installed but without the bolt stop pin inserted; I'll take one later to display the metal recoil spring tab extending into the bolt stop pin hole. Until you see the photo I'd recommend holding off of modifying your recoil spring rear metal tab until you get a chance to see another and how it sits in the receiver. There may not be anything out of place with your recoil spring assembly.
R,
Bullseye
When looking down through the bolt stop hole, just prior to inserting the bolt stop pin, that metal tab looks like it is partially blocking the hole. This is because the extractor spring is actually pushing back the bolt slightly from the breech face. When the bolt stop pin is fully inserted, the recoil spring will shift forward a little, and that tension keeps the bolt flush with the breech face overcoming the tension of the extractor spring. Usually that last little pop of the mainspring takes some force. I have to squeeze the mainspring housing hard to seat the bolt stop fully into the receiver. Sometimes I even have to give the bottom of the open mainspring assembly a little rap with the mallet to seat it fully.
Perhaps your metal tab is a little different shaped, but it doesn't sound that way to me. I'd be happy to look at a photo if you want post it here. I just checked through my photo library and I don't have a shot of the receiver with the bolt installed but without the bolt stop pin inserted; I'll take one later to display the metal recoil spring tab extending into the bolt stop pin hole. Until you see the photo I'd recommend holding off of modifying your recoil spring rear metal tab until you get a chance to see another and how it sits in the receiver. There may not be anything out of place with your recoil spring assembly.
R,
Bullseye
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MicroGuy
- Regular contributor
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- Location: Flowery Branch, Georgia. USA
It's not the semi-circular part.
If you look at the recoil spring assembly, you'll see the U shaped tab. That's the semicircular part you're talking about.
Then there's the rod that is surrounded by spring.
They attach those two parts together, by cutting a slot in that rod and inserting that semicircular part (U shaped part) and then press fitting it and looks like it's brazed.
The VERY end of that rod protrudes into that semicircular area where the bolt stop pin goes.
On the new one, it extends too far. And no amount of pressure will allow me to insert that bolt stop.
I either need a hammer from the top, or some huge pliers to insert it.
Or, better yet, just peen that area, or file it down.
I tried for half an hour last night trying to force it in, and it's just not going. From the top or the bottom.
Now the old part works fine. I put that in and it went together without an issue, just pops right in.
And looking at the two, you can see where the old one is peened a bit, or just a tiny bit shorter.
I'll take a photo later and post it, old and new, and some measurements.
When looking down through the bolt stop hole, just prior to inserting the bolt stop pin, that metal tab looks like it is partially blocking the hole. This is because the extractor spring is actually pushing back the bolt slightly from the breech face.
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Except, it sticks out far enough so that the bolt stop pin will not push it back. It simply blocks the pin.
Were the bolt stop pin tapered more (pointed) it would push it back, But since it's just rounded on top, it hits that "tab" and just stops.
If you look at the recoil spring assembly, you'll see the U shaped tab. That's the semicircular part you're talking about.
Then there's the rod that is surrounded by spring.
They attach those two parts together, by cutting a slot in that rod and inserting that semicircular part (U shaped part) and then press fitting it and looks like it's brazed.
The VERY end of that rod protrudes into that semicircular area where the bolt stop pin goes.
On the new one, it extends too far. And no amount of pressure will allow me to insert that bolt stop.
I either need a hammer from the top, or some huge pliers to insert it.
Or, better yet, just peen that area, or file it down.
I tried for half an hour last night trying to force it in, and it's just not going. From the top or the bottom.
Now the old part works fine. I put that in and it went together without an issue, just pops right in.
And looking at the two, you can see where the old one is peened a bit, or just a tiny bit shorter.
I'll take a photo later and post it, old and new, and some measurements.
When looking down through the bolt stop hole, just prior to inserting the bolt stop pin, that metal tab looks like it is partially blocking the hole. This is because the extractor spring is actually pushing back the bolt slightly from the breech face.
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Except, it sticks out far enough so that the bolt stop pin will not push it back. It simply blocks the pin.
Were the bolt stop pin tapered more (pointed) it would push it back, But since it's just rounded on top, it hits that "tab" and just stops.
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MicroGuy
- Regular contributor
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- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:32 pm
- Location: Flowery Branch, Georgia. USA
OK, here's a photo of the two side by side.
The one that works (old one) is on the right.
There's three things to notice about it (besides not being very good photo)
A is the overall length past the bottom of the U is longer.
B is the very tip of it is more rounded off. On the old one, it's flatter.
C is the U shaped piece seems to sit deeper into the cut on the rod on the new one. Look at the taper on the very end of the rod (zoom in it's easier to see).
On the old one, bottom of the U shaped part just starts where the taper starts. On the new one, it's extended just past it.
It's a very small amount, but trust me, it's enough to keep me from putting the bolt stop pin in place.
Use the new recoil spring, no go, use the old one, works fine, go back to the new one, no go. Very, very hard to insert from the top of the gun too. Does work because you have much more leverage, but still very hard.
Like I said, now that I know what I'm looking at, I know this was probably my issue with the 22/45. (besides the hammer pin walking out). I simply could not get that bolt stop pin in place.
If I had known this, a few light strokes with a file and I'm sure it will work. I'll try that after I go shooting tomorrow. I don't want to mess with it again right now. I'm using the old recoil spring right now.
I think the file will be the easiest way to fix it. I'm afraid if I try to hammer it a bit, close that gap and flatten it at the same time, I make break the braze.
But looking at it, I think there's any number of ways of correcting it. You could extend the rod manually while it inserted into the receiver and hold it extended, then insert the bolt stop. Hopefully after shooting a bit that will flatten the tip of it some. File it, whack it with a hammer, add just a bit of taper to the bolt stop pin, etc...
The one that works (old one) is on the right.
There's three things to notice about it (besides not being very good photo)
A is the overall length past the bottom of the U is longer.
B is the very tip of it is more rounded off. On the old one, it's flatter.
C is the U shaped piece seems to sit deeper into the cut on the rod on the new one. Look at the taper on the very end of the rod (zoom in it's easier to see).
On the old one, bottom of the U shaped part just starts where the taper starts. On the new one, it's extended just past it.
It's a very small amount, but trust me, it's enough to keep me from putting the bolt stop pin in place.
Use the new recoil spring, no go, use the old one, works fine, go back to the new one, no go. Very, very hard to insert from the top of the gun too. Does work because you have much more leverage, but still very hard.
Like I said, now that I know what I'm looking at, I know this was probably my issue with the 22/45. (besides the hammer pin walking out). I simply could not get that bolt stop pin in place.
If I had known this, a few light strokes with a file and I'm sure it will work. I'll try that after I go shooting tomorrow. I don't want to mess with it again right now. I'm using the old recoil spring right now.
I think the file will be the easiest way to fix it. I'm afraid if I try to hammer it a bit, close that gap and flatten it at the same time, I make break the braze.
But looking at it, I think there's any number of ways of correcting it. You could extend the rod manually while it inserted into the receiver and hold it extended, then insert the bolt stop. Hopefully after shooting a bit that will flatten the tip of it some. File it, whack it with a hammer, add just a bit of taper to the bolt stop pin, etc...
Looking at the two parts in the picture reveals a little filing off of the top of the rounded tip won't change anything mechanically with your pistol, but it will provide more clearance for the bolt stop pin. I'd file a little and try it, then if still too tight, file off a little more until it fits right.
R,
Bullseye
R,
Bullseye
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melchloboo
- Regular contributor
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- Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:31 am
I spent 2 hours on the same problem one night. I have a blued 22/45 and can maybe suggest 2 things:
1. I eventually noticed that the bolt stop pin head had formed a "burr"/scratch of bluing and metal that was catching on that recoil spring assembly as I tried to insert the bolt stop pin. I light hit with the file on the head of the bolt stop pin helped dramatically. I think it makes more sense to file the head of the bolt stop than the spring, because once it's through the receiver it serves no function (the head that sticks out the top that is).
2. I have found it easier to do in 2 stages. 1, use a screw driver or really any kind of lever to push the spring forward just enough so you can get the bolt stop pin in just enough so the head is sticking out. From there, it is usually easy to then pop the bolt stop in all the way, but as Bullseye said, it takes some force.
3. I have also found that sometimes it just takes a few attempts, and will pull out the bolt stop if it seems stuck and simply try again. There is no explanation, just sometimes it easily pops and sometimes it doesn't. But to sit there and keep pushing when it doesn't want to go won't work. I remove it, pop it back and magically it goes through.
4. I put a little dab of remoil right on the bolt stop head to help it glide in.
5. One time I got really frustrated and just used a c-clamp to squeeze it in. In retrospect, I don't know how wise that was.
6. It gets easier as the head of the bolt stop head wears down if you don't want to file.
7. It helps to use a rag or paper towel to grip the bolt stop assembly and pistol as you squeeze it through, otherwise it can dig into your fingers pretty good.
But yes, it would be a good heads-up for new owners.
1. I eventually noticed that the bolt stop pin head had formed a "burr"/scratch of bluing and metal that was catching on that recoil spring assembly as I tried to insert the bolt stop pin. I light hit with the file on the head of the bolt stop pin helped dramatically. I think it makes more sense to file the head of the bolt stop than the spring, because once it's through the receiver it serves no function (the head that sticks out the top that is).
2. I have found it easier to do in 2 stages. 1, use a screw driver or really any kind of lever to push the spring forward just enough so you can get the bolt stop pin in just enough so the head is sticking out. From there, it is usually easy to then pop the bolt stop in all the way, but as Bullseye said, it takes some force.
3. I have also found that sometimes it just takes a few attempts, and will pull out the bolt stop if it seems stuck and simply try again. There is no explanation, just sometimes it easily pops and sometimes it doesn't. But to sit there and keep pushing when it doesn't want to go won't work. I remove it, pop it back and magically it goes through.
4. I put a little dab of remoil right on the bolt stop head to help it glide in.
5. One time I got really frustrated and just used a c-clamp to squeeze it in. In retrospect, I don't know how wise that was.
6. It gets easier as the head of the bolt stop head wears down if you don't want to file.
7. It helps to use a rag or paper towel to grip the bolt stop assembly and pistol as you squeeze it through, otherwise it can dig into your fingers pretty good.
But yes, it would be a good heads-up for new owners.
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MicroGuy
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- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:32 pm
- Location: Flowery Branch, Georgia. USA
I did take a small needle file to it, and it works just fine now.
You don't have to worry about taking off too much at one time because it's hard metal. To take off too much at once, you'd have to use a grinder or really be a dope.
The weird part of it is, I can't measure any difference, or see any really without some high magnification.
But, there's just barely enough to keep that pin from going through.
I tried to push that part out of the way, but I couldn't get down in there far enough and push and everything else at the same time.
But anyway, when I first had both new guns, the 22/45 and this one, they were a problem putting that bolt stop pin back in. And I didn't see any mention of this issue at the time.
So I think if you tell people what to look for, they can decide if that's the issue or not and how to deal with it. May make things a lot easier for some and same some headaches.
You don't have to worry about taking off too much at one time because it's hard metal. To take off too much at once, you'd have to use a grinder or really be a dope.
The weird part of it is, I can't measure any difference, or see any really without some high magnification.
But, there's just barely enough to keep that pin from going through.
I tried to push that part out of the way, but I couldn't get down in there far enough and push and everything else at the same time.
But anyway, when I first had both new guns, the 22/45 and this one, they were a problem putting that bolt stop pin back in. And I didn't see any mention of this issue at the time.
So I think if you tell people what to look for, they can decide if that's the issue or not and how to deal with it. May make things a lot easier for some and same some headaches.
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melchloboo
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- Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:31 am
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MicroGuy
- Regular contributor
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- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:32 pm
- Location: Flowery Branch, Georgia. USA
Ah, remember, this is a spare part. Wasn't in a gun before I got it.melchloboo wrote:Well, there must be a "trick" do doing it easily because somebody at Ruger has to put the thing together before shipping.
But, you're talking about new guns, like how could I have had that much trouble if somebody had put it together before.
I figure they have a jig for one. If not something like a press, you insert a gun, the part, and use a lever or something to put it into place.
I don't think they have time to mess with 'em individually too much, so it's going to be automated as much as possible (not robots so much, but jigs).
But that is a good question. With the gun I had, how in the world could it ship. I wondered the same thing. Man, I spent two hours one night trying to put it together, giving up at least twice.
But, it shipped.... Forwards and backwards, I got rid of that junker.
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melchloboo
- Regular contributor
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- Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:31 am
I agree, and they should make such a tool available and/or ship it with the gun in the first place. I still have a scar on my thumb from where I scraped myself trying to get that d**n thing in the first time. I actually did not get a good night's sleep before a match dealing with it, and shot poorly.
Just out of curiosity, is yours blued? Perhaps it is only a problem on blued pistols like mine and does not affect the stainless? I would imagine the stainless bolts slide through easier.
Just out of curiosity, is yours blued? Perhaps it is only a problem on blued pistols like mine and does not affect the stainless? I would imagine the stainless bolts slide through easier.