Using iron sights.....accurately???

[chadflys]

I'm new to this target shooting...Got my MKII a month ago. Some advice that I had received a while back was to get to where I could hold the 5.5 ring at 75ft., at which point I'd be good enough for a trigger modification.

Is that reasonable? I've gone through about 800 rnds now and its hard to say I've improved. I'd say I could consistantly hit a dime at 10 and 15ft....at 20ft about a 1.5in group....at 30ft I start having trouble keeping it inside 3in....consistantly.

With a 2x scope my groups were inside 3in at 75ft.

What should I expect from myself as a fairly novice shooter?
Should I go ahead and upgrade my trigger now?
Are there better iron sights that the standard tartget sights?

Thanks,

Chad

[toyfj40]

I'm not the "disciplined marksman" that I fantasize of being...
but I don't mind being a "critique"... --grin

first, congrats on some steady shooting.
second, 'a month' ?? ... just getting started.
800 rounds... that's less than one practice-session for some.

give yourself time to begin to sense where your shot will hit
before you see/check. as you "know" where the hole will be
and you sensed that you shot hi/lo/left/right... and can 'call it'...
this will easily be a few thousand rounds...

also, since each chamber and bore can be subtly sensitive to
various stock .22 ammo and we can't custom-load ...
what ammo are you using?
IF it is the Walmart-bulk boxes... the ammo 'standard deviation'
may be some of your group-size.
Which MK2 do you have? how old it is? any guesstimate of
how much it was used/broken-in ?
How's your trigger-finger? and trigger-break?

Set a goal and carefully work toward meeting it...
making careful note of what YOU do different that results in
consistent improvement...
"change one thing at a time" and observe the difference.
adjust and go-again...

others will "contribute", too, but note that I'm an 'Expert CONTRIBUTOR'


keep us posted on specifics as others make their suggestions.
take care -- toy

[bearandoldman]

"change one thing at a time" and observe the difference.
adjust and go-again...

others will "contribute", too, but note that I'm an 'Expert CONTRIBUTOR'
toy

Change only one thing at a time is a definite as if you do more than one you do not know which one helped or hindered.
Toy, do you know the definition of expert, ex is a has been and spurt is just a drip under pressure

[Bullseye]

Hard to top what Toy said.

For some, investing in a upgrade is best waited until personal skill surpasses the mechanical capability of the weapon. But with a Ruger 22 Auto, the upgrade cost is very minor. There's no legitimate reason to wait for a trigger upgrade. Learning to shoot with a pistol that has a clean breaking trigger has its advantages.

Expectations would be my next concern. Some folks are easily discouraged - another reason why waiting before undertaking an expensive accuracy upgrade (like a with a custom 1911). Anticipating a large increase of accuracy in a little amount of fired rounds is typically setting one's self up for a let down. I'm not criticizing, but 800 rounds is really not that much of an expenditure to set expectational goals upon. Like Toy said, being able to call the shot is much more important than actually hitting within a certain radius on the target. If a shot goes errant, knowing it before glancing into the scope and spying the hole, is key to good marksmanship. I know where to look on the target before I ever look in the scope, just by where the sights were aligned when the shot broke.

Usually it is not the trigger that a new shooter has trouble with - it is the hold. Everyone has a wobble, a more experienced shooter has a smaller wobble zone than a novice. Typically the novice snatches the trigger when the sights momentarily align at the aiming point. That type of shooting makes it difficult for the shooter to call the shot. That's because when the trigger was squashed, the sight alignment was disturbed and the shot went awry. Typically this shooter cannot call the shot or wonders how the hole got way over there, especially since the sights were so perfect when the trigger was pulled.

The key to good marksmanship is to let the shot break, not make it break. A very hard concept for a novice to grasp. By letting the shot break, the front sight will jump on the target as detonation occurs, and the mind will instantly freeze that image in the conscious brain. The shooter can now 'replay' the momentary sight jump in their mind and that should be where the shot's hole is located in the target face. Unfortunately, the novice often spends too much time chasing the ball instead of concentrating on the trigger break and focusing on the sights.

As the shooter's muscle memory improves, so does the shot hole radius. This takes time, for some a lot of time, for others not as much. The best way to work on aiming and trigger control is to turn the target around so just a white face appears. This way the shooter is concentrating on the sights and sight alignment rather than maintaining a perfect hold. The new shooter will soon see that by concentrating on the sights, the group will shrink to acceptable sizes, and will stay centered in the white mass of the target face.

I believe I've addressed your first two questions. The last one is yes, there is a better target iron sight - the Volquartsen TL rear sight is one. It has accurate, precise, and repeatable adjustments, like a BoMar style sight does.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye

[Georgezilla]

I use the VQ TL rear sight on a MKIII Hunter. In my opinion much better than the factory adjustable rear sight. One disadvantage I found to the VQ rear sight is that you can't mount optics on the factory weaver rail -- the VQ rear sight is too long.

Which leads me to a question: The weaver rail is only about 1/5" too long for the pistol in question. I think I could cut off this unwanted material and still be able to mount the rail using all 3 screw holes. Would I be advised against or for this? If its a decent idea what tool should I use to cut the aluminum (I own a dremel, jig saw, hack saw and several vices if none of these would work please recommend something else as one of my friends has a small workshop)? If its a bad idea I'd appreciate a recommendation of a weaver rail that would work with the VQ rear sight. If pictures would aid anyone in advising me I'll take some.

Thanks.

[Bullseye]

If you're sure that you have enough clearance for your scope on the rail if it were on the TL sight mounted pistol, then the hacksaw is the best cutting tool for the aluminum. You can clean up the cut with a file using gentle strokes and clean the file's teeth very frequently with a metal file brush.

R,
Bullseye

[greener]

For just 800 rounds, it sounds like you are doing pretty well. I've seen some 8,000 round shooters who would be very happy with your results.

Some of the things I've found helpful.

Look at the pattern of your shots in the group. They are keys to technique. I like this one: http://www.targetshooting.ca/docs/grp-analysis.pdf
I've also seen this one being used as a target because it provided a ready reference: http://www.bullseyepistol.com/training.htm

Even if you are not doing bullseye shooting, this site has a wealth of resources, including a link to the USAMU pistol guide. http://www.bullseyepistol.com/index.htm

[KAZ]

So,now I understand why just writing a check for my 41 didn't make me a Master Class Pistolero Just kidding of course,a little range humor for our new shooter chadflys. WELCOME, you are doing really well,and as already said Toy nailed it Find the right ammo and buy a case of it,practice trigger press,sight alignment for every shot,have fun. Regards

[bearandoldman]

So,now I understand why just writing a check for my 41 didn't make me a Master Class Pistolero Just kidding of course,a little range humor for our new shooter chadflys. WELCOME, you are doing really well,and as already said Toy nailed it Find the right ammo and buy a case of it,practice trigger press,sight alignment for every shot,have fun. Regards

Maybe you didn't write a big enough check to a big enough person.
Another shooting aid is good young eyes and good steady hands, that leaves me out. I will never be a lass shooter but I do please one person, myself and that is what the game is all about. Years ago I a lot a lot of sporting cays and was fairly good at it, so I tried registered competition for one summer. Took the fun out of shooting, so just went back to shooting with my friends for fun and enjoyed it again. Competitive shooting is not for every one, guess it is just too disciplined for this old man. My belief that if it is not fun, maybe I should stop doing it.

[KAZ]

bearandoldman,well said:" I will never be a class shooter but I do please one person, myself and that is what the game is all about."
Describes me exactly! It takes a really fine piece of equipment to just get me on the target. I blame all my "dammit" shots on the wind,rain,heat,cold,mirage,bench,seat,sun,ammo,flu,etc. Reminds me of that old joke where the Professional Lady looks at the little man and says:"Who are you going to satisfy with that?" He,with a big smile: ME
Very,very sorry for stealing your thread chadflys

[bearandoldman]

bearandoldman,well said:" I will never be a class shooter but I do please one person, myself and that is what the game is all about."
Describes me exactly! It takes a really fine piece of equipment to just get me on the target. I blame all my "dammit" shots on the wind,rain,heat,cold,mirage,bench,seat,sun,ammo,flu,etc. Reminds me of that old joke where the Professional Lady looks at the little man and says:"Who are you going to satisfy with that?" He,with a big smile: ME
Very,very sorry for stealing your thread chadflys

Hey give the real KAZ a Puparoni , you Texans sure can talk well. I though of that old and I mean old, story but could not think of how to clean it up enough to post it.
All of my shooters, even the poorest one will out shoot the shooter. Nice thing about the pistols and rifles is Bear and I can go to the range and we do not need anyone else. Bear is not impressed by my shooting and especially with the rim fires he stretches out near the bench and takes a snooze. He is no stranger to gunshot as he always went on the sporting clays course with my friends and I and has had countless 1,000's of shot near him, and he can still hear the mail delivery at the front door even when napping.

[greener]

The hardest upgrade part to find is Puller, Trigger, M1A1. Although I keep looking, I'm still stuck with the M1 model.

Still loads of fun dreaming about how well I might do with an M41 and Ahnnie.

[bearandoldman]

The hardest upgrade part to find is Puller, Trigger, M1A1. Although I keep looking, I'm still stuck with the M1 model.

Still loads of fun dreaming about how well I might do with an M41 and Ahnnie.

Doubt if you would really notice any difference, probably might even be worse. You and I are just used to shooting with lower class equipment and the good stuff might really cause us problems, especially in the wallet.

[PISTOLERO]

Here is a small rhyme I use. Chadflys. WELCOME

Front sight clear
And flush with the rear.


Ignore everything and everyone behind you
And let the shot surprise you.

[bearandoldman]

The hardest upgrade part to find is Puller, Trigger, M1A1. Although I keep looking, I'm still stuck with the M1 model.

Still loads of fun dreaming about how well I might do with an M41 and Ahnnie.

I think I may still be operating with the 03 model, definitely the 1932 model.
Ah yes 1932, the birth of 2 great American Classics, Me and the 32 Ford Phaeton Coupe with the suicide doors. One is know as the Little Deuce Coupe and the other just as oldman.