Clark guns: Ruger VS Smith 41

bentrod · Post by **bentrod** » Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:01 am

I am a bullseye shooter using a MKII target with the VQ kit and Clark bushing. Which I was able to do with the help of this forum.

I am thinking of another target.22 from Clark, either a Ruger MKII or a Smith 41. I really like my Ruger because it will shoot about any 22 ammo. I know the M41 is picky in this regard, is the Clark Ruger with its barrel as picky.
Does anyone have a Clark Ruger 22? There is a big price difference between the MKII and the M41 from Clark. I want the M41 with the sighted rib so I can shoot irons or a dot. BTW, Clark is again offering this option on the 41.

Jim

Post by **Bullseye** » Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:11 pm

Welcome to Guntalk-online!

As you know there's a big difference between these two rimfire pistols. One main difference is in the trigger. A model 41 trigger, properly tuned, is far better than the Ruger Mark's trigger. In bullseye shooting the trigger break can be a significant factor in performance level. Having said that, you are considering two Clark Custom pistols which means they are both worked over (tuned) for performance.

Your question about the ammo for the M41 is simple - it depends on the individual pistol and brands of ammo used. CCI-SV is a good performing ammo in the M-41. Other brands may vary on functioning for this particular model. But Clark will adjust the pistol if necessary if you run into any problems feeding ammo. The regular, untuned, M-41 tends to be very highly ammo sensitive.

Have you ever tried a M41 before? Some people do not perform well with them, and then there's others who wonder how they ever got by without one.

How long have you been shooting bullseye (Conventional Pistol)? Where is your current performance level? (i.e. MKS, SS, EX, MA, HM)

R,
Bullseye

bentrod · Post by **bentrod** » Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:25 am

Bullseye wrote:Welcome to Guntalk-online!

As you know there's a big difference between these two rimfire pistols. One main difference is in the trigger. A model 41 trigger, properly tuned, is far better than the Ruger Mark's trigger. In bullseye shooting the trigger break can be a significant factor in performance level. Having said that, you are considering two Clark Custom pistols which means they are both worked over (tuned) for performance.

Your question about the ammo for the M41 is simple - it depends on the individual pistol and brands of ammo used. CCI-SV is a good performing ammo in the M-41. Other brands may vary on functioning for this particular model. But Clark will adjust the pistol if necessary if you run into any problems feeding ammo. The regular, untuned, M-41 tends to be very highly ammo sensitive.

Have you ever tried a M41 before? Some people do not perform well with them, and then there's others who wonder how they ever got by without one.

How long have you been shooting bullseye (Conventional Pistol)? Where is your current performance level? (i.e. MKS, SS, EX, MA, HM)

R,
Bullseye

I have no experience with the m41, but will shoot a friend's before buying.
I like the Ruger because it will shoot almost anything, but a Clark Ruger may be picky. The main reason I am asking is because I need a backup gun, my 22 was down for a while and I felt naked.

I have just finished my 2nd year of BE shooting, I am expert indoor 22, and shoot the same 22 scores in 2700 outdoors. I shoot with an UD indoor and irons outside.

Outdoor I am SS. Iron sights on all 3 guns. Ruger 22, either M41 Smith or Beretta 92 for CF -- my DR and DP guns. For 45 a Les Baer wad gun.

My scores haven't improved outdoors this year, so I am starting the USMC Pistol Team Workbook program that I downloaded. I am going back to the beginning and work up.

Thank you

Post by **Bullseye** » Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:34 am

I asked because some folks try to improve their scores by buying more expensive equipment. Since you're shooting expert scores you could likely see a benefit by upgrading to the M-41 - not that a Ruger 22 is bad for bullseye shooting.

Do you think the difference in your indoor and outdoor scores are due to the optical sights? Or, are you having difficulties shooting slow fire at 50 yards?

Going back to the basics can help overcome any bad habits one picks up along the way.

R,
Bullseye

stork · Post by **stork** » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:30 am

If you're not aware of it yet, be warned.

There is a syndrome known as NEWGUNITIS. What it boils down to is that when trying out a new gun you shoot it much better than your current choice.

The reason you shoot it better is that you pay more attention to the fundamentals when shooting an unfamiliar gun. The result is, you shoot well above your current level. Not because the gun is any more accurate, just that you are doing(with the new gun) what you should be with your current pistol. Sight Alignment, Trigger control, Stance, focus on the front sight while moving the trigger.

If you can shoot the new gun for a couple weeks you will see a drop in your scores due to your becoming more familiar with the NG (new gun) and reverting back to your normal habits. I am as guilty of this as anyone out there. I have 4 BE Ruger MKII's, 3 Hi Standard Citations, and a Marvel conversion. My favorite is my 5 1/2" stainless slab side MK II with nothing but a trigger job and an ultra dot.

One of my BE shooting buddies shoots a 41 and constantly has malfunctions. I don't know if he has had a clean match in the 10 years I've shot with him.

Now that I've said that, it's always good to have more 'Stuff'.

Tbag · Post by **Tbag** » Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:40 pm

While the 41 is generally a more refined pistol, personally I cannot tolerate the grip, just not my cup of tea. Much rather shoot one of my Rugers or Benelli. To each their own.

Georgezilla · Post by **Georgezilla** » Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:02 pm

Bullseye wrote: The regular, untuned, M-41 tends to be very highly ammo sensitive.

R,
Bullseye

What sort of tuning can be done to increase a M-41's functionality with different ammo?

I know about the extractor adjustment, but that's it.

Post by **Bullseye** » Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:57 pm

There's a few other ways to tune a M41, but I cannot reveal all my secrets.

R,
Bullseye

stork · Post by **stork** » Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:38 am

One of the guys I shoot BE with bought a 41 back in the early 70s. He was constantly frustrated with its reliability (He'd been shooting Hi Stnd Citations) and had it back to S&W twice. He was at the local gun shop & happened to strike up a conversation with another patron who happened to collect 41's. He mentioned he couldn't get through 1- 22 segment of a BE match without a malfunction or two. The other guy was amazed at its reliability and mentioned out of a dozen or more 41's he didn't have one that would go through 2 magazines without a malfunction and wanted to buy my friends. Needless to say it was sold and Hi Standards were resorted to again.

After a couple more years my friend went to the MKII's and never looked back. All they needed was a new trigger and they were 100% reliable with any decent ammo.

FWIW

Georgezilla · Post by **Georgezilla** » Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:44 am

Bullseye wrote:There's a few other ways to tune a M41, but I cannot reveal all my secrets.

R,
Bullseye

Gotta guard the trade secrets.

Post by **Bullseye** » Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:33 pm

I had a personal "alibi Annie" Model 41 and even after the extractor tune it still had hiccups with many brands of ammo. I finally talked some more with my friend Austin and he gave me some other tips on how to tune the pistol. He's gone now but I still use all those techniques he taught me to make other's M-41's reliable. After that, my "alibi" gun turned into a regular workhorse and it hasn't choked on any ammo for years now.

R,
Bullseye

Python · Post by **Python** » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:30 pm

Hello fellow shooters.
Been awhile since I have been here.

I have been shooting Bullseye since Nov. 2008

My .22 pistol is the 7" M41 with a 4 dot Match Dot scope.I am averaging about 850 with my personal best of 868-36x.

My M41 will digest CCI-SV, Eley and SK without any hiccups(you will always get the occasional good strike on a .22 and no discharge, just spin it around and refire and it goes bang).

You have to keep the chamber clean, I use a .32 caliber brass brush, and do not go into the lands !!!

Keep the breach face clean and clean out the gunk build up under the extractor hook.

Nylon brush only through the bore(no brass brush here !!!)

I personaly like the 7"= heavier barrel to tame down my hold.

Have been very pleased with the M41.

I have had some good input from a couple fellow shooters that I shoot with almost every other week during the shooting season.(John Zurek and Steve Reiter).

Clarence Perkins

stork · Post by **stork** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:33 am

Clarence,
You're in with some impressive shooting companions. I've watched both John & Steve at Perry. Machine like consistency.

Python · Post by **Python** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:25 pm

Yah;

They are both like Ransom Rests on two legs.

Kind of neat to watch these two totally take out the x ring in timed and rapid fire on their good days.

I really like scoring for them also.
It is just too easy 10's and x's and the random 9's.

Clarence

bbh791 · Post by **bbh791** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:30 am

The MKII and M41 are indeed very different. I shoot bullseye and the MKII is the one for me. I owned a M41 and shot 10-15 points less than the MKII. I think it had to do with the grip angle. The trigger was very good. I think it all boils down on what feels good in your hand. The M41 is overpriced for what you get. Most people end up getting them re-worked which is something you shouldn't have to do for the price you pay upfront. If you shoot anything other than CCI SV, it is an alibi gun. I bought mine from a military shooter and he did very well with it, but, he spent money on it to get it re-worked. I never got an alibi with it, but I couldn't shoot it worth squat. It had a great trigger but the grip angle was no good for me. I think it is the same as the 1911 frame on a .45. I can't do any good with a 1911 frame either. The MKII has a fair trigger and great grip angle where the M41 had a great trigger and bad grip angle. Ruger makes the 22/45 which is useless to me, but others do well with it because it is like shooting the .45. It all depends on what you do well with. I'll never return to the M41. Just my opinion from shooting both guns.