.22 For Defense

teejay · Post by **teejay** » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:30 pm

bearandoldman wrote:
teejay wrote:You carry people are lucky you're not in Ca., but you do go on a bit. TJ
Years ago, and I mean a lot of years ago, I spent some time in CA on business a couple of times and that is one place I really would not care to live, Ill is another one.

I read that in Chicago, 2010, 440 school age kids were killed. More than our troops in Iraq. In fact, they now call it Chiraq!! No, I'll stay away from Chicago, thank you very much. TJ

Jack D · Post by **Jack D** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:13 pm

There's one thing about a .22LR that I rarely see mentioned. And that is the fact that you can get off many more shots from a .22 than with a larger cal. gun due to the light recoil. What this means to me is that if you can get of 10 rounds in a .22 lr for every two of a .45, then you have five times the chance of hitting a vital organ. Of course that varies with the shot ratio, but you get the idea.

I can get off 8 rounds in my LCR .22 in two seconds into a 6" circle at 21' and a .45 shooter can only get two in that circle in two seconds, then I have 4 times the chance of hitting a vital organ than that .45 shooter.

A higher number of accurate shots could make the .22lr closer to the bigger bores than one might think. Does not 8 smaller holes equal 2 or 3 bigger ones....especially if more accurately placed? Personally, I don't think I would stop with one shot from anything. I'd keep shooting until the gun was empty or the threat was stopped. One shot stop means nothing to me. A one shot stop is just plain luck.

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:22 pm

Are those aimed shots? No time for aiming in an SD situation, more like shooting a shotgun.

Jack D · Post by **Jack D** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:05 pm

bearandoldman wrote:Are those aimed shots? No time for aiming in an SD situation, more like shooting a shotgun.

Laser aimed.....yes. Not sighted with sights. I practice maybe 100 rounds/week average. At least I did until the ammo shortage. I can put 10 rounds with my SR22 in a 6" circle, using the laser, in two seconds and all 8 rounds of my LCR 22 in two seconds, with the laser. And I can do it consistantly, but not everytime. I feel perfectly comfortable with my ability to put all 8 rounds of the LCR in a man's chest at 21' in 2 seconds, if necessary. But I've never been in that position, so I can't prove it. Four to five shots is as fast as I can pull the trigger. Four with the LCR and five with the SR. The LCR has CT grips and come on automatically and is my "carry" gun. The SR must be turned on and along with the safety, magazine, etc., it has too many things to think about in a SD situation, so the LCR is my choice. Point and start firing. No thought process necessary once the decision is made to shoot.

This video shows one of my early attempts. with the SR22.
http://www.hmds.ws/Pics/SR22RapidFire.wmv

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:44 pm

Haven't been in that position either and hope I never am. Got my instructions from an old Detroit cop, that had been involved in a few himself. The smallest gun I carry is a KelTec P33AT in .380 and that is my left hand pocket gun, remember the fastest reload is a second, my Detroit cop friend always carried 3 guns. Not a Bullseye shooter as I am just too old to hold the gun steady that long. I am good at point and shoot because of the many 1,000's of round of shotgun I shot on sporting clays and skeet, where you look at the target and not really aim with the sights. Besides when IO am shooting this bad guy with little bullets he is either shooting at me with a bigger gun o rushing me with some other weapon. Used to carry the SA Micro or the SA V-10 all the time but that is now my night table gun and I carry a Smith 442 in .38+p, love the Micro and can shoot it better than the Smith but in my older age it is just getting too damn heavy.

Post by **Bullseye** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:18 pm

That Micro looks well-loved. I know it has given you many years of faithful service on your hip. Sorry to hear it is relegated to the nightstand but in a way it is still on watch by your and Ma's side nearly half the day.

R,
Bullseye

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:20 pm

Bullseye wrote:That Micro looks well-loved. I know it has given you many years of faithful service on your hip. Sorry to hear it is relegated to the nightstand but in a way it is still on watch by your and Ma's side nearly half the day.

R,
Bullseye

Yes it does show a little holster, now and then it still takes a trip with me though. Nothing points like a 1911. Just look at the target and shoot. Used to have a program at the indoor range I used to frequent, where the target would move out and open for 2 second, close and move to another distance and repeat 6 time. 2 seconds is enough for 2 in the chest and 1 in the head and then the BG is really dead.

greener · Post by **greener** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:35 pm

Nice, fast shooting, Jack.

The lack of recoil makes the .22's much better for very fast shooting. I don't think higher calibers are going to slow you down enough to reduce the increased stopping power.

I've been practicing slower, better aimed shots, but really need to get into faster, point shots. Old man does a pretty accurate, pretty quick 5 shots from his 442 point shooting. I'd hate to be on the receiving end of either of you shooting.

teejay · Post by **teejay** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:06 am

In my situation, being in CA, you don't shoot baddies at 21'. They have to be coming at you while you've retreated as far as you can. That puts them in a backlit door frame with an obstacle. Though I don't shoot as much as I used to, I still am a dead shot. I do believe my previous training of shooting under duress has not flagged. A shadow in a door frame is not going to be hard to hit. He will take as many rounds as it takes to make him go down.
I've been shot with a .45 in the foot. Passed right through and had no effect other than a lot of blood. The foot didn't shred, disappear or cause any harm what so ever. I don't even have a limp. I began life thinking that if one was hit by a .45, you were down. Not so. No ill effects other than blood. TJ

greener · Post by **greener** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:23 pm

You are lucky the shot in the foot didn't take out bone or tendon. I think a .452 diameter bullet going into the center of the upper torso would do considerable damage, or at least give the recipient pause for thought.

I'll do my best to avoid having to use a firearm for self-defense but,
I was never known for fleetness of foot and the older I get the less footspeed I have for the Nike defense. I suppose the best way to avoid the problem is to avoid those places that expect me to retreat rapidly.

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:27 pm

Too old to run, too old and weak to fight and way too old to survive a serious butt kicking. the only choice I will have is to shoot.

teejay · Post by **teejay** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:34 pm

I'm in that boat with you two. Too old to fight, too old to run, to old to intimidate. Firearms are my last resort.
The .45 went right through the Achilles tendon and exited behind the little toe. It didn't touch anything vital. Guess I was lucky. Would not try the same in the body mass, though. TJ

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:42 pm

greener wrote:I'll do my best to avoid having to use a firearm for self-defense but,
I was never known for fleetness of foot and the older I get the less footspeed I have for the Nike defense. I suppose the best way to avoid the problem is to avoid those places that expect me to retreat rapidly.

the best I've heard it put was, don't violate the "3 stupids rule"

1) don't go stupid places
2) don't be with stupid people
3) don't do stupid things

as long as you don't violate these 3 rules you will generally stay out of trouble...

.. but sometimes the 3 stupids find you.......

greener · Post by **greener** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:06 pm

bgreenea3 wrote:
greener wrote:I'll do my best to avoid having to use a firearm for self-defense but,
I was never known for fleetness of foot and the older I get the less footspeed I have for the Nike defense. I suppose the best way to avoid the problem is to avoid those places that expect me to retreat rapidly.
the best I've heard it put was, don't violate the "3 stupids rule"

1) don't go stupid places
2) don't be with stupid people
3) don't do stupid things

as long as you don't violate these 3 rules you will generally stay out of trouble...

.. but sometimes the 3 stupids find you.......

You mean I should retire?

Post by **Bullseye** » Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:04 am

I'm glad I wasn't drinking at the time I read the "3 Stupids" Rule.

I don't believe I've heard it put that way before but it is so true!

R,
Bullseye