Help w Mk II 22/45 for bulls eye competition

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FourCornerm'n
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Help w Mk II 22/45 for bulls eye competition

Post by FourCornerm'n » Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:31 am

I'm having to use an old Tasco Pro Pt II on one or another of my MkII 22/45s to try to shoot the NRA 900 event. The game is new to me, challenging as all get out, and, frankly, I love it. But, I'm not close to getting my trigger finger / mind to act competently. 30 years of combat shooting with revolvers have clearly left bad effects.

My first and most important question is how often can I dry fire these Mark II era 22/45s? I'd like to dry fire them maybe? about 40 or 50 times a week without having to use snap caps or spent cases because I have some pain in my hands and thumbs. I understand from other shooters in my small town (which nevertheless gets to host the State Championship !) that internet sources they've come across are split about dry firing these Ruger Mark II .22s.

What are my options?

This is the most important question, so I'll let it stand alone.

I've got others about managing to get useful grips on these older guns, and a problem with the bolt face on one gun. A step at a time makes sense, though.

Thanks ahead of time

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blue68f100
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Post by blue68f100 » Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:28 am

I dry fire my MKIII very seldom. If I was going to do extended dry fire I would use a snap cap or dry wall anchor to protect the rim face. The dry wall anchor will stay in place so you do not have to worry about putting it back every time you pull the bolt back to cock the gun. Another option would to remove the FP or get a second and grind it short so there is no chance of getting damage. Just remember to put it back in (or replace) before you go shoot.

Good luck.

On your trigger, If I recall it can not be below 2#. I do not shoot competition, but the trigger pull on my MKIII is 1 lb 9oz, wicked light. If I let some one shoot my gun, I always have them do a dry fire on mine so they know what to expect. Most just say I just touched it and it went off. But all shoot better groups with my gun than what they normally shoot.
David

SS MKIII 6 7/8" Fluted Hunter. Mueller Quick Shot, Bushnell 2x Scope, Hogue Rubber Grips
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Bullseye
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Post by Bullseye » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:18 am

Dry firing Ruger Mark Series pistols is best kept to a minimum. There is a firing pin stop designed into the pistol to prevent the pin from striking the breech face under normal operating conditions of dropping the hammer to de-cock the pistol for maintenance or to relax tension on the mainspring for storage. It can be dry fired but extended use in this manner puts significant stress on the firing pin stop, to the point where it can distort and allow the firing pin tip to reach the chamber mouth and damage it. The pin is mostly concealed within the bolt assembly and when damaged can go unnoticed until the damage is imparted onto the chamber mouth. Here is an example of a damaged firing pin I discovered within a customer's pistol.

Image

From all appearances, the pin was in place and operating normally, except for the dent imparted in the breech face.

Image

I have found many similar examples of this type of distortion of the firing pin stop pin, or outright broken firing pin stop pins, all of the owners admitting to performing dry firing practice, some lots of it, and some owners said they did not practice very much at all. As a result, some owners devised a local remedy to prevent damage to their pistols by using plastic dry wall anchors inside the chambers to cushion the blow of the pin.

Image

These anchors are relatively inexpensive to use and can be changed easily when they are worn beyond providing protection for the chamber face. Using them may not fully protect the firing pin stop as stress is still imparted upon it from dry firing. It would be a good practice to periodically inspect the stop pin in your bolt to check for any signs of damage.

Another method that is effective is to pull the bolt assembly and remove the firing pin for extended sessions of dry firing. Without the firing pin in the bolt, no stress is placed on the stop pin when repeated hammer drops are encountered during practicing.

You can decide for yourself what method to use. Dry-firing practice will increase your marksmanship skills but it should be done with the knowledge that proper care and maintenance is necessary to prolong the life of the pistol.

Hope this helps.

R,
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FourCornerm'n
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Post by FourCornerm'n » Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:42 pm

Thanks to both of you for your very well informed and detailed input. I will be careful to protect these guns. They're all I've got as a whole new world of bulls eye shooting is opening up.

The most experienced local shooter recommends dry wall anchors but says he moves them after every shot, getting about 12 - 15 dry firings in before discarding them. With potential pain in my basal thumb joints and a worn out middle finger from shooting so much, I don't think I can get my otherwise limber hands to move the anchor after every shot. Does use of these anchors in your recommendations involve moving them around after each dry fire? It's the simplest solution, though the others aren't very complicated, either. How many hits on one part of the lip of these anchors would probably be safe?

On examination, neither of my firing pin stop pins seem to be damaged even after 15 - 20,000 rounds through each gun. Not much dry firing, so far, aside from the usual amount following practice or matches.

Other possibilities?:

It would be easy enough to get another FP stop pin, replace and preserve the best two I'll use for live fire, and monitor the 'dummy' for damage.

Does dry firing after temporarily removing the firing pin have any bad effects? ... On the hammer, the back of the bolt where the hammer hits, or on the action if there's a slightly greater jolt? I'd take the firing pin spring out each time and should have a replacement or two here since one FP spring broke earlier in the long bbl'd gun.

Either of these look like a good solution and, if the anchors can stand some hits without compressing too much, a third way may get me to an early start. Grinding down a firing pin is probably a bit more than I could do easily, and not likely to be that much better of a solution.

For a while I think my home-work will consist of keeping a red dot steady as possible inside various solid black circles. I've got big limitations to overcome, but expect all these step to be rewarding.

Thanks ahead of time

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blue68f100
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Post by blue68f100 » Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:08 pm

You could make a few dry fires and inspect each time you pull the bolt to cock it. Then make the judgement an weather you need to move it. Use a cleaning rod or brass rod to bump the anchor out and rotate. Just removing the FP would probably be the best solution for long term dry fire. The bolt is what stops the forward movement of the hammer the FP just uses slows some of the energy before it hits the bolt.
David

SS MKIII 6 7/8" Fluted Hunter. Mueller Quick Shot, Bushnell 2x Scope, Hogue Rubber Grips
Custom Built 1911

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Post by Bullseye » Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:11 pm

Moving (rotating) the plastic anchors in the chamber is essential to protecting the chamber wall's integrity. The firing pin will deform the edge of the plastic anchor very quickly, and that would defeat the purpose of installing them in the first place. I agree with your comment that poking your fingers into the narrow ejection port can cause irritation very quickly on the fingers and the nail quick. The best option for prolonged dry-firing is removing the firing pin and the stop pin then replacing the depopulated bolt back into the pistol for the practice session. The bolt and the hammer are thoroughly hardened and do not suffer any ill effects from peening during this preventative measure. The two strike each other regularly and the firing pin offers no appreciable resistance to this process of firing the pistol. Taking the pin out doesn't change the overall function of these two components. Taking the out the small guide and return spring when the firing pin is removed is a good practice too. Besides, removing these items allow you to more frequently perform a periodic inspection on them for visible defects. As you mentioned the little return spring had a tendency to break with high usage and often goes unnoticed until the operator starts having detonation issues.

Hope this helps.

R,
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FourCornerm'n
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Post by FourCornerm'n » Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:27 pm

Cool !!

Thanks to both of you !



Cameron

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cousin jack
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Post by cousin jack » Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:14 pm

How difficult is it to remove the firing pin and the firing pin stop...... any tutorials anywhere?
"Speed is fine, but accuracy is everything." Wyatt Earp

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blue68f100
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Post by blue68f100 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:37 pm

Not hard, Basically remove the bolt, drive out the FP retainer pin to take it apart.

BE has a nice guide here: http://www.guntalk-online.com/service.html
David

SS MKIII 6 7/8" Fluted Hunter. Mueller Quick Shot, Bushnell 2x Scope, Hogue Rubber Grips
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cousin jack
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Post by cousin jack » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:17 am

blue68f100 wrote:Not hard, Basically remove the bolt, drive out the FP retainer pin to take it apart.

BE has a nice guide here: http://www.guntalk-online.com/service.html
Well, yeah.... true enough, except you didn't tell me about that little spring and bar under the firing pin that I didn't know was there! Kaboing! I searched for an hour and couldn't find the spring, but my wife came home from work and found it in ten minutes... and then I found the bar somewhere in the pistol, where it got lodged when I tried to put the firing pin less bolt back in the gun to dri-fire..... fell out when I removed the bolt again to see why it was hanging up.....

Ah well, all's well that end's well.....
"Speed is fine, but accuracy is everything." Wyatt Earp

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Post by Bullseye » Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:12 pm

Perhaps I'd better replace those bolt breakdown pictures with some higher definition and larger views. I've had a few of those rebound springs shoot off and vanish into seemingly nothingness over the years. Interesting how some just lay there in the bolt and others choose to jump out under powered flight.

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Post by blue68f100 » Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:05 am

Or add a warning that they may launch to never never land. Mine just lays there :D
David

SS MKIII 6 7/8" Fluted Hunter. Mueller Quick Shot, Bushnell 2x Scope, Hogue Rubber Grips
Custom Built 1911

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