I was wondering how many out there cast their own bullets? Primary question is how time consuming is it? Would it be worth it, or is it more of a something you just like to do thing?
I can get as much lead as I want, so that's not an issue.
Bullet casting.
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Downeaster
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I don't. I've thought about it but haven't moved on the idea primarily because I DON'T have a dependable source of lead. If I did have a source, I'd very likely get into casting, for a number of reasons:
1. Cast bullets are expensive to buy (500 round boxes of .45 in excess of $70/box).
2. If you mailorder them, shipping hurts.
3. Given the current political climate, I expect availability of bullets in general will be an issue.
4. I suspect, like reloading, it would be an enjoyable winter passtime.
5. It's one more step towards being independent.
Downsides:
1. Time consuming.
2. Learning curve to get consistent results.
3. Toxicity of lead.
4. Dangers of dealing with molten metal.
None of the downsides concern me particularly, and a little care and planning will minimize any risk, but they ARE things you need to be aware of.
1. Cast bullets are expensive to buy (500 round boxes of .45 in excess of $70/box).
2. If you mailorder them, shipping hurts.
3. Given the current political climate, I expect availability of bullets in general will be an issue.
4. I suspect, like reloading, it would be an enjoyable winter passtime.
5. It's one more step towards being independent.
Downsides:
1. Time consuming.
2. Learning curve to get consistent results.
3. Toxicity of lead.
4. Dangers of dealing with molten metal.
None of the downsides concern me particularly, and a little care and planning will minimize any risk, but they ARE things you need to be aware of.
An empty weapon is just a very expensive hammer.
I don't cast my own but I have given it some serious thought. Casting bullets is a lot like an art, there's more to it than meets the eye. Like a lot of things, once you've done it a few times and have established a set routine, I'm sure it is simpler to do and very beneficial for all the effort put into it.
R,
Bullseye
R,
Bullseye
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Downeaster
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Maybe now that scrap prices are back in the real world. For a while there, ya hadda lock yer garage or they'd steal the battery right outta yer car for the lead.SKnight wrote:Lead is easier to get than you think. Go to any tire shop and speak to the manager. Tell them what you're doing and likely they'll give you a five gallon bucket of wheel weights. Toss them in a tumbler to knock off dirt and dust, voila! Free bullet material.
An empty weapon is just a very expensive hammer.
Casting
SKnight,
I started casting about 9 years ago when I couldn't find any decent quality bullets locally. I had the option of ordering good stuff: IE-Lazer cast or Star, but decided to give the black art a try.
I probably cast 7-10,000 rounds for the 45, 1.000 for the 41 mag, and 1,000 for the 38 per year. I have been the route of Lee equipment and wouldn't go back there. I settled on the RCBS pot and 4 cavity Hensley and Gibbs molds-200 gr flat base and bevel base, and 148 wadcutters for the 38. The 41 mag is a double cavity 220 gr swc from Lyman . It is time consuming if you want to make match quality bullets. But, you may make a better bullet than you can buy and win some matches with your own creations. Now thats a rush.
Most of my casting is done this time of year. The pot stays set up in the garage all year and when the temperature is bearable I'll cast up 500-1000 in a sitting then quit for the night. After I get a good supply I size them and store them for when they are needed.
Lead is acquired as range scrap. When the rangemaster inquires what I'm going to do with all that scrap, I tell him honestly that I'm going to recycle it.
FWIW
Stork
I started casting about 9 years ago when I couldn't find any decent quality bullets locally. I had the option of ordering good stuff: IE-Lazer cast or Star, but decided to give the black art a try.
I probably cast 7-10,000 rounds for the 45, 1.000 for the 41 mag, and 1,000 for the 38 per year. I have been the route of Lee equipment and wouldn't go back there. I settled on the RCBS pot and 4 cavity Hensley and Gibbs molds-200 gr flat base and bevel base, and 148 wadcutters for the 38. The 41 mag is a double cavity 220 gr swc from Lyman . It is time consuming if you want to make match quality bullets. But, you may make a better bullet than you can buy and win some matches with your own creations. Now thats a rush.
Most of my casting is done this time of year. The pot stays set up in the garage all year and when the temperature is bearable I'll cast up 500-1000 in a sitting then quit for the night. After I get a good supply I size them and store them for when they are needed.
Lead is acquired as range scrap. When the rangemaster inquires what I'm going to do with all that scrap, I tell him honestly that I'm going to recycle it.
FWIW
Stork
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” – George Washington
Stork,
Since you're one who is actually casting bullets, perhaps you can share a little bit about how you hardness test your cast bullets. Also make any recommendations on adding other materials (antimony,tin, etc.) to balance out the hardness of the lot. Plus, what techniques if any do you use for lubrication and sizing of the cast bullets. I think that this would make an interesting article for the membership.
Thanks,
Bullseye
Since you're one who is actually casting bullets, perhaps you can share a little bit about how you hardness test your cast bullets. Also make any recommendations on adding other materials (antimony,tin, etc.) to balance out the hardness of the lot. Plus, what techniques if any do you use for lubrication and sizing of the cast bullets. I think that this would make an interesting article for the membership.
Thanks,
Bullseye
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Downeaster
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Yes, Indeedy! I for one would find it fascinating.Bullseye wrote:Stork,
Since you're one who is actually casting bullets, perhaps you can share a little bit about how you hardness test your cast bullets. Also make any recommendations on adding other materials (antimony,tin, etc.) to balance out the hardness of the lot. Plus, what techniques if any do you use for lubrication and sizing of the cast bullets. I think that this would make an interesting article for the membership.
Thanks,
Bullseye
An empty weapon is just a very expensive hammer.
The Black Art
"The Black Art"
I term bullet casting such because it seems that way at times, I am not the first to refer to casting as such.
"how you hardness test your cast bullets"--When I first started casting I took advantage of a friends Saeco bullet hardness tester, so bear in mind I'm quoting from memory. My scrap bullets without water quenching were at 16-17. With water quenching a couple of points harder. Wheel weights were around 14-15. I haven't tested any for over 5 years for the following reason. I don't care how hard or soft they are as long as they shoot into less than 2" at 50 yards. This is supposed to be too hard for good bullseye bullets. They should be between 9-12. But I only count results.
When I smelt down the scrap I do in it in a 100# pot. There is a lot of bullet jacket, target clips, rubber bands, dirt that gets skimmed off. I flux the heck out of it with Brownell's Marvelux and wax. The remaining lead mix gets poured into 2-9 cavity 3# molds. I get 3 pours out of each pot with some left in the bottom of the pot. Then I start the next batch.
"adding other materials (antimony,tin, etc.) to balance out the hardness of the lot"--Real Simple, I don't. Early on I experimented with adding some pure Linotype to the mix to increase the tin content, but those bullets didn't shoot any better than my pure range scrap bullets. I also experimented with straight wheel weights and straight linotype with no better results. I cast for the end result. If it doesn't give me better results, I go back to the simpler, more streamlined process. Remember, I am casting these to achieve 2" or better groups out of a 45 @ 50 yards. If I was casting for a center fire rifle for a longer distance I would have to change my techniques and procedures.
Some of the most important things to remember about casting good bullets are: Good mixture-Consistent temperature-molds up to proper temperature-REJECT ALL BULLETS WITHOUT PERFECT BASES-REJECT ALL BULLETS WITHOUT PERFECT BASES (I repeated that because it is very important). The nose can look horrible and still shoot very well as long as the bullet is within weight tolerances.
"what techniques if any do you use for lubrication and sizing of the cast bullets"--I size with a Star lubrisizer. It is by far the fastest and easiest to size and lube large quantities of bullets in a short time. It is not difficult to size and lube 1000 bullets in an hour. As I store the bullets in 50cal ammo cans, I have never tried to keep track of the number done in an hour. I usually size enough bullets to go through a couple of sticks of bullet lube and that's usually enough to get my arm tired enough to quit. The star's advantage is that the bullet can be sized by dropping the bullet into the die nose first. Who ever designed the sizer knew a few things about sizing. It is very user friendly. As quick as you can pull the handle down and up, the bullet is done. They drop right into another 50 cal ammo can that is located right below the exit of the sizer die. I keep the bullets separated by type. I have done some reading on sizing bullets base first giving better results at 50 yards, so I intend on experimenting with that later on this winter.
When I cast I have my three main molds on the bench. 2- H&G 130 flat base 4 cavity molds and 1- H&G 68 bevel base mold. The H&G 130's cast within 1 1/2 grains for all 8 cavities. As long as bullets are within 3 grains in weight, and no internal or external voids, they will group within 1 1/2-2" out of a match grade 45 at 50 yards. I rotate the molds in sequence so none of them get too hot to cast good bullets. I fill the mold-set it down to cool-take the next mold and strike off the sprue and drop the bullets into a bucket with about 8-10" of water and 2-3" of Styrofoam pellets floating on top (that keeps all water from splashing up onto the molds or God forbid into the pot. Just a HUGE word of warning-ONE DROP OF WATER IN A POT OF LEAD WILL RESULT IN A HUGE EXPLOSION OF MOLTEN LEAD ALL OVER ANYTHING IN THE IMMEDIATE AREA)
I started with a couple of Lee Micro Band molds (90433) for my 41 mag and a 10# Lee Precision Melter. I then went to a Lee Pro 4-20 pot (http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog ... lters.html) At the time I bought the Pro 4-20 I was starting to cast a lot of 45 bullets, the wait time for melting down ingots to replenish the pot was unacceptable. I had the chance to use a buddy's RCBS pot and fell in love with it. The wait time was cut in half, the thermostat seemed to keep the mix much more constant, and the most important-it didn't leak like the Lee did. I also tried the Lee 6 cavity (90310) at the same time I acquired the H&G molds and found it coming in a far second place in bullet quality. To be fair to Lee, I know other good bullet casters who love the 90310 and get great results with it so it may have been a fluke.
Sorry for the long post, I got a bit more verbose than I originally intended.
FWIW
I term bullet casting such because it seems that way at times, I am not the first to refer to casting as such.
"how you hardness test your cast bullets"--When I first started casting I took advantage of a friends Saeco bullet hardness tester, so bear in mind I'm quoting from memory. My scrap bullets without water quenching were at 16-17. With water quenching a couple of points harder. Wheel weights were around 14-15. I haven't tested any for over 5 years for the following reason. I don't care how hard or soft they are as long as they shoot into less than 2" at 50 yards. This is supposed to be too hard for good bullseye bullets. They should be between 9-12. But I only count results.
When I smelt down the scrap I do in it in a 100# pot. There is a lot of bullet jacket, target clips, rubber bands, dirt that gets skimmed off. I flux the heck out of it with Brownell's Marvelux and wax. The remaining lead mix gets poured into 2-9 cavity 3# molds. I get 3 pours out of each pot with some left in the bottom of the pot. Then I start the next batch.
"adding other materials (antimony,tin, etc.) to balance out the hardness of the lot"--Real Simple, I don't. Early on I experimented with adding some pure Linotype to the mix to increase the tin content, but those bullets didn't shoot any better than my pure range scrap bullets. I also experimented with straight wheel weights and straight linotype with no better results. I cast for the end result. If it doesn't give me better results, I go back to the simpler, more streamlined process. Remember, I am casting these to achieve 2" or better groups out of a 45 @ 50 yards. If I was casting for a center fire rifle for a longer distance I would have to change my techniques and procedures.
Some of the most important things to remember about casting good bullets are: Good mixture-Consistent temperature-molds up to proper temperature-REJECT ALL BULLETS WITHOUT PERFECT BASES-REJECT ALL BULLETS WITHOUT PERFECT BASES (I repeated that because it is very important). The nose can look horrible and still shoot very well as long as the bullet is within weight tolerances.
"what techniques if any do you use for lubrication and sizing of the cast bullets"--I size with a Star lubrisizer. It is by far the fastest and easiest to size and lube large quantities of bullets in a short time. It is not difficult to size and lube 1000 bullets in an hour. As I store the bullets in 50cal ammo cans, I have never tried to keep track of the number done in an hour. I usually size enough bullets to go through a couple of sticks of bullet lube and that's usually enough to get my arm tired enough to quit. The star's advantage is that the bullet can be sized by dropping the bullet into the die nose first. Who ever designed the sizer knew a few things about sizing. It is very user friendly. As quick as you can pull the handle down and up, the bullet is done. They drop right into another 50 cal ammo can that is located right below the exit of the sizer die. I keep the bullets separated by type. I have done some reading on sizing bullets base first giving better results at 50 yards, so I intend on experimenting with that later on this winter.
When I cast I have my three main molds on the bench. 2- H&G 130 flat base 4 cavity molds and 1- H&G 68 bevel base mold. The H&G 130's cast within 1 1/2 grains for all 8 cavities. As long as bullets are within 3 grains in weight, and no internal or external voids, they will group within 1 1/2-2" out of a match grade 45 at 50 yards. I rotate the molds in sequence so none of them get too hot to cast good bullets. I fill the mold-set it down to cool-take the next mold and strike off the sprue and drop the bullets into a bucket with about 8-10" of water and 2-3" of Styrofoam pellets floating on top (that keeps all water from splashing up onto the molds or God forbid into the pot. Just a HUGE word of warning-ONE DROP OF WATER IN A POT OF LEAD WILL RESULT IN A HUGE EXPLOSION OF MOLTEN LEAD ALL OVER ANYTHING IN THE IMMEDIATE AREA)
I started with a couple of Lee Micro Band molds (90433) for my 41 mag and a 10# Lee Precision Melter. I then went to a Lee Pro 4-20 pot (http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog ... lters.html) At the time I bought the Pro 4-20 I was starting to cast a lot of 45 bullets, the wait time for melting down ingots to replenish the pot was unacceptable. I had the chance to use a buddy's RCBS pot and fell in love with it. The wait time was cut in half, the thermostat seemed to keep the mix much more constant, and the most important-it didn't leak like the Lee did. I also tried the Lee 6 cavity (90310) at the same time I acquired the H&G molds and found it coming in a far second place in bullet quality. To be fair to Lee, I know other good bullet casters who love the 90310 and get great results with it so it may have been a fluke.
Sorry for the long post, I got a bit more verbose than I originally intended.
FWIW
Last edited by stork on Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” – George Washington
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bearandoldman
- Ye Loquacious Olde Pharte
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Stork, I used to buy Oregon? Laser Cast bullets from Cabela's when the price was right, used to use another outfit but hey went out of business. I now have a local source at a small gun shop nearby, not a big section of his own cast but he does have .45's and .38's. I use his about 140 grain full wad cutters in .38 Special in my 50th Anniversary Black hawk and they work fine,also 240 grain SWC's in the .45 and they work good also. Not a serious target shooter at my age but just punching holes in paper and having fun doing it. Wheel weights, have heard that they are not using lead any more is that true? I know even the old ones were quite hard compared to regular lead bullets.
You have great day and shoot straight and may the Good Lord smile on you.
That is an excellent casting report Stork! I didn't see it as verbose, just right to the point. You covered a lot of ground on how to cast bullets. I also liked the fact that your emphasis is on results and not necessarily technique. Sometimes folks get lost in the details and totally hose the results by trying to get it right by someone else's standards. Well done!
R,
Bullseye
R,
Bullseye
No kidding. Honestly I'd like to see you write a couple of pages on the subject.Bullseye wrote:That is an excellent casting report Stork! I didn't see it as verbose, just right to the point. You covered a lot of ground on how to cast bullets. I also liked the fact that your emphasis is on results and not necessarily technique. Sometimes folks get lost in the details and totally hose the results by trying to get it right by someone else's standards. Well done!
R,
Bullseye
New Wheel weights :evil:
bearandoldman,
Keep in mind the wheelweights I cast with were over 15 years old. I have heard that the newer ones have a high Arsnic % mixed in with the lead. It doesn't do any harm when used as wheelweights, but, it makes a bullet lead your bore so much that you're shooting a smoothbore within a dozen rounds.
I do know you should never use the adhesive backed wheelweights.
I'm one of the most ignorant rats in the maze when it comes to casting, but I did stay one night at the Holiday Inn. Seriously, I'm just too bull headed and anal to let a little thing like a piece of lead to get the best of me and I do say with some pride that my match bullets are more consistent and have better bases than any I have ever paid hard cash for.
Now if I could only shoot them well enough to make Master class I'd be so fat headed I couldn't walk through the door. I've been stagnate at 93-94.2% for over 6 years and haven't figured out how to fix that loose nut behind the trigger.
FWIW
Keep in mind the wheelweights I cast with were over 15 years old. I have heard that the newer ones have a high Arsnic % mixed in with the lead. It doesn't do any harm when used as wheelweights, but, it makes a bullet lead your bore so much that you're shooting a smoothbore within a dozen rounds.
I do know you should never use the adhesive backed wheelweights.
I'm one of the most ignorant rats in the maze when it comes to casting, but I did stay one night at the Holiday Inn. Seriously, I'm just too bull headed and anal to let a little thing like a piece of lead to get the best of me and I do say with some pride that my match bullets are more consistent and have better bases than any I have ever paid hard cash for.
Now if I could only shoot them well enough to make Master class I'd be so fat headed I couldn't walk through the door. I've been stagnate at 93-94.2% for over 6 years and haven't figured out how to fix that loose nut behind the trigger.
FWIW
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” – George Washington
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bearandoldman
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- Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:30 am
- Location: Mid Michigan
Re: New Wheel weights :evil:
You got to remember one thing "It's not the Shooter but it is the Shooter" Bullets and gun and all the other stuff is just to be used for excuses. I had heard that the newer wheel weights were a problem. A muzzle loader friend told me and he casts round ball, that the high tin content make the balls so hard they are hard to push down the barrel and cause a lot more recoil that the softer pure lead balls.stork wrote:bearandoldman,
Keep in mind the wheelweights I cast with were over 15 years old. I have heard that the newer ones have a high Arsenic % mixed in with the lead. It doesn't do any harm when used as wheelweights, but, it makes a bullet lead your bore so much that you're shooting a smoothbore within a dozen rounds.
I do know you should never use the adhesive backed wheelweights.
I'm one of the most ignorant rats in the maze when it comes to casting, but I did stay one night at the Holiday Inn. Seriously, I'm just too bull headed and anal to let a little thing like a piece of lead to get the best of me and I do say with some pride that my match bullets are more consistent and have better bases than any I have ever paid hard cash for.
Now if I could only shoot them well enough to make Master class I'd be so fat headed I couldn't walk through the door. I've been stagnate at 93-94.2% for over 6 years and haven't figured out how to fix that loose nut behind the trigger.
FWIW
You have great day and shoot straight and may the Good Lord smile on you.