Body Die to go with Neck Sizer

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charlesb
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Body Die to go with Neck Sizer

Post by charlesb » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:41 pm

Today I ordered a Redding body die in 7mm-08 to go with my Lee collet neck sizer. I have heard that this combination is very good, so I thought I'd try it out.

The body die only sizes the body and shoulder, not the neck. Using this occasionally and the neck sizer all of the time is alleged to reduce brass migration so the cases last longer.

You have to lube up the cases for the body die, but not for the Lee collet neck sizer. I hate messing with case lube, so this is a big plus for me as I'll only have to fool with case lube every once in a while.

Now that my 7mm-08 barrel for my Savage model 16 is broken in and starting to shoot good, I'm getting more enthusiastic about shooting it.

These days I load up five or maybe ten rounds at a time, and then go see what they will do. - The gun club is only two or three miles away so it's no big deal to run down there on an afternoon, or early in the morning.

There probably won't be much to tell, but I'll report on the Redding body die when it comes in and I get a chance to use it.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/416100 ... -remington

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blue68f100
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Post by blue68f100 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:29 pm

I have only heard good things about it. If I recall you can even size a completed round if you find some that need the shoulder bumped. But most set the die to only bump the shoulder back 0.002" at most and use them regularly as part of the sizing steps.
David

SS MKIII 6 7/8" Fluted Hunter. Mueller Quick Shot, Bushnell 2x Scope, Hogue Rubber Grips
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Post by charlesb » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:32 pm

The instructions for the Redding body die had me set the die to firmly contact the shell holder. Redding has a set of five competition shell holders that are a few thousandths different from each other for fine-tuning the action of the die, but they are quite pricey, over 70 bux so I gave that a pass and just used my Lee shell holder.

http://redding-reloading.com/index.php? ... older-sets

I could see where the die had lightly touched the shoulder, and squeezed the base enough to burnish the brass a bit.

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So I sized the bodies of the brass, decapped, sized the necks, trimmed them for length etc. and decided to try five rounds each of two loads with the 154 grain Hornady flat-base SP Interlock bullets I ordered earlier.

43 grains of 760 with LR primers, and 44 grains 760 with LR primers. ( The max load listed in the Hornady manual was 45.6 grains. )

As you can see below, the 43 grain loads were dramatically better at 50 yards than the 44 grain loads were. Both are 5 shot groups at 50 yards, with several minutes cooling time between shots.

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Since I only had five of each, I did not attempt to get the gun sighted in for these bullets yet, I just aimed at the bull and let them go where they may.

The 43 grain load says it gives 2569 fps with the Hornady 154 grain SP Interlock bullets I'm using. It's not a top velocity load but it shoots OK, I think I'll stick with it as a measuring stick to compare other loads with other powders against. My 7mm-08 has a 24" barrel so the velocity listed is probably fairly close.

Hornady does not mention magnum primers with W 760, but other books do, so I may try magnum primers and see if there is any difference. I'm wondering if the 44 grain load needed better ignition. It seems to be stringing vertically, phenomenally bad at 50 yards.

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Post by blue68f100 » Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:55 am

Did you check to see how far you pushed the shoulder back? You only need 0.002" for max brass life. I have 1 set of dies that the shell holder does not touch. If ran all the way down you move the shoulder back 0.015" which is too much.

You may need the Mag primer for extreme cold weather.
David

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Post by charlesb » Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:10 am

I compared the shoulders on fired and unfired and sized brass, and couldn't see a difference by eye. I used to be able to see .002" years ago - but that was years ago so I set up my stereo microscope.

As usual, I was amazed at how scratched-up and granular those nice shiny brass cases looked under magnification. With both cases firmly pressed against a ground steel block, I could see what looked like .005" difference between the two shoulders, judging by the point where the shoulders began.

I suppose I can use a Sharpie marker on the shoulder to see if the shoulder is being touched by the die, and use progressively thinner feeler gauges, starting off at .015" to "sneak up" on it until the die just barely kisses the shoulder.

I have ten fired cases to play with now. The above method would be much more accurate than me eyeballing it through the microscope. - I can lower the magnification and just use the microscope to see whether the inked area of the shoulder has been touched by the die, yet.

Once I get it worked out this way, I can just use the appropriate feeler gauge when setting up the die, after that.

It still irks me that the groups differed so much from a one grain change in the powder charge.

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Post by blue68f100 » Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:57 pm

Using the ladder test for load work up, I've seen where just 0.5gr can make a group go away.

Use a 9mm/ or 40 cal brass as a measuring collar to measure your shoulder. Measure the once fired as a reference then as you set it back take another reading and you should see a change. This is the poor man's way of ding things instead of buying the fancy tools. More accurate than eye balling them.

I have the RCBS Precision Mic to measure the shoulder for a few calibers. I use this since I have several guns of the same caliber and each requires a different setting. I set my dies for the short one then use shims to set the die back for the other guns.
David

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Post by charlesb » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:55 pm

I was off by .001" in my eyeball estimation under the stereo microscope. I looked around and couldn't find a 9mm empty, but I did find .40 S&W and .357 SIG cases that contacted the shoulder at different areas. Both gave me a .006" difference between fired and sized cases.

Thanks for the tip about using a pistol case and dial calipers, it works well and gives repeatable dimensions. That's the main thing.

So in theory, If I slip a .004" shim in-between the shell holder and the body die from now on while setting it up, the casings ought to come out about right.

Makes me wonder if it would have come out closer if I had used a Redding shell holder. As far as I know, there is no established standard on how those things are constructed.

I guess all I need now is a 7mm-08 factory crimp die, and a can of H414 as I've been out of it for a while now, and it shows the best velocity with the 154 grain bullet in the Hornady manual.

Using a case with a slot cut in the neck method of measuring bullet seating depth, the 154grn bullet touches the lands at the very start of the crimp groove, with my cases trimmed according to the Lee case length trimmer. If I seat the bullet so that the case mouth is halfway covering the crimp groove, that gives it a .020" running start, which isn't too bad.

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Post by blue68f100 » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:56 pm

So in theory, If I slip a .004" shim in-between the shell holder and the body die from now on while setting it up, the casings ought to come out about right.
Provided that you compensate for frame flex...

And once you bump one back, trying to nudge it again it, it may not move small amounts due to brass spring back. Use a once fired to set. As the brass work hardens it takes a little more nudging. Or just setup your dies using a shim set under the locking collar. The you can accurately change it as needed.
David

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