1911 newb with questions!

Georgezilla · Post by **Georgezilla** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:51 pm

How often should one replace the recoil spring on ball 1911? Sightm1911.com
says every 2,000 rounds, but I just like to verify with my trusted sources on GTO

Also what weight spring would be ideal for a ball 1911?

Post by **Bullseye** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:47 pm

Also what weight spring would be ideal for a ball 1911?

That is not as easy of a question as one might think. Is this a tightened (accurized) slide and frame? Is there an optical sight installed? Is an optical sight frame or slide mounted?

All of these things contribute to the functionality of the slide and determine the spring tension necessary to allow the pistol to function properly. What kind of ammo would be shot out of the gun? (factory only or some reloads)

I see people stating ideal recoil spring weights all the time, but these same folks are making broad-based generality statements vice inquiring to the specifics of any individual pistols. Drag and weight have to be taken into consideration of slide function. In some cases a higher tension spring is used because the accuracy job is new. As the slide and frame wear, the spring tension lightens slightly, and both parts wear-in together optimally.

I'm also not a fan of replacing springs just to replace them. Is there a functioning issue? Is this problem directly related to a recoil spring's tension? If not, then replacing the recoil spring isn't solving a thing. If the pistol functions fine with the old spring then leave it. If one is worried about a loss of recoil spring tension over time, then add a shock buff and monitor it periodically for signs of excessive battering.

R,
Bullseye

Georgezilla · Post by **Georgezilla** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:45 am

The pistol in question is a Les Baer Hardball, no optics. It currently only shoots Winchester/Federal 230grn ball. It will be shooting reloads after the holidays are over. I am going to be using it for IEC matches next year. I plan on shooting 2700s with it for EIC practice as well, so I will be using some wad-cutter reloads in addition to the HB. Sorry if that was too much info, but I figured it's best you know what demands will be placed on it.

No functionality issues exist at all, it even grew out of rubbing brass residue above the slide scallop.
I have always been the guy that says "if it ain't broke don't fix it!" so I was kind of suspicious of replacing the recoil spring at such a definitive number of rounds. I read the "every 2,000 rounds" thing on a few web/book sources and a few fellas at the range I go to advocated it. These same people also told me that shock buffs tend to cause feeding issues.

Assuming the recoil spring does start to lose tension in this type of match pistol, what functionality issues should be expected? Lastly, do you recommend that I install a shock buff now (FYI the pistol has around 4,500 rounds through it)?

Post by **Bullseye** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:49 pm

I figured once you got the pistol broken in more that the brass would stop hitting the slide. Basically you had to polish off all those microscopic tooling marks with an operational honing job (i.e. shooting). Sounds like your #16 spring is doing fine with Hardball. You may need a #14 spring if you choose to shoot wadcutters or reloads. Spring weight may be dependent on the powder charge and projectile weight. Springs are easy to swap and I keep two for my ball gun. One spring for ball and one for wads. My ball gun still has the original spring in it. Working fine even though there's been a highly significant amount of ammo through the gun. No signs of battering showing on the spring guide or abnormal wear on the shock buff. They're cheap insurance. The only times I've seen problems with 1911 functioning and shock buffs are when someone decides to use more than one at once, or when one actually deteriorates through use. Try one out and see how your gun functions with a shock buff installed. You can always remove it if there's problems.

R,
Bullseye

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:09 pm

Right there my friend, more than on Shok buff and the gun will not run properly and you can not use on in any of the short barrel 1911's.

cm6259 · Post by **cm6259** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:01 pm

Great thread, very informative. Thanks to all, I found answers here to questions I hadn't even thought of yet.

I just bought a new LBC Concept I, and wondered about the brass deposits on the slide. Glad to hear this should go away once I get it broken in.

CM

Georgezilla · Post by **Georgezilla** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:59 am

Now that this Baer pistol is broken in, I wanted to re-visit this thread with yet another quest.

Now that the pistol is broken in, when I put it back together after it has been field stripped the barrel bushing is flush on the slide/barrel channel with no cant. Rack the slide once and the bushing is canted. After the initial racking of the slide the bushing appears to stay in the same place while manually cycling the pistol. My concern is that perhaps the pistol's bushing does not stay stationary when it cycles live ammo, thus changing the point of impact from shot to shot. I don't really have a way (that I can think of) to test the pistol to its full potential at 50yds. My skill isn't there yet, no bullseye shooters around and no access to a ransom rest.

The pistols warranty elapses in a few months so I figured I'd inquire about the updated condition.

Post by **Bullseye** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:26 am

Movement is OK between the various parts. The idea is that all of these parts are returning to the exact same position each time during sustained firing cycles. For example, the barrel moves each time as the pistol cycles by tilting up and down during the locking and unlocking sequence. The bushing just helps keep the barrel fixed into a definite position each time the barrel tilts back into its fully locked position. The tighter the bushing's fit is around the barrel's end, and also its fit into the end of the slide, makes the barrel's locking position relatively fixed. This is why your angled wear ring near the tip of the barrel is showing. It is where the barrel is locked into the bushing as it is tilted into the locking lugs. Typically an angled relief cut is made on the inner (upper) portion of the bushing and the lower (outer) portion of the bushing to allow clearance for the barrel's locking tilt. It is OK if the bushing tilts a little as long as it is locking the barrel's end into the same place consistently. Based on your original accuracy testing, I'd say that everything is functioning as designed.

I understand that you are concerned, as this match pistol represents a significant investment, but I believe based on our previous conversations and my experience as a match gun builder that everything is just fine. Confidence in your pistol is paramount to successful marksmanship. Therefore if you still have concerns you should contact the builder and inquire on your observations. They can explain their match quality assembly process much better than I. If there's a quality issue they will rectify it as Baer Custom is a quality producer of firearms.

R,
Bullseye

moose · Post by **moose** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:45 pm

I compete in the IPSC/USPSA matches with a Sprfld 1911 .45 and a STI Edge 2011 40 S&W. I also highly reccomend using shock buffs, I personally use the Ed Brown Buffs, they are a little softer. As when to change the recoil spring...2,000 rnds is actually to soon, you should easily get 5,000 rounds out of a recoil spring, I have 7,000 rnds on the springs in my 1911 and 2011 pistol, and will more than likely be changing them now. As to what weight to run depends on how you want the gun to feel. My .45 I use a 14# Recoil spring and a 20# mainspring, shooting 230gr ball ammo, The STI .40 I run a 12 1/2# recoil spring and 20# Mainspring. With the lighter recoil spring when the slide comes forward to lock up you have less movement of the muzzle wanting to dip down. Both my guns are very well broke in and will run lighter springs with no problems. And I very Highly reccomend this Grease to use "Slide Glide" Go to this link and check it out, it does stay where you put it. http://www.brianenos.com/pages/slide-glide.html
Moose

Georgezilla · Post by **Georgezilla** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:42 am

Well I called Baer Custom and they asked me to e-mail a picture of the condition. With the e-mail I just summarized all the concerns I've expressed here. The woman I spoke to on the phone looked at the picture and said that it didn't look like anything to be concerned about, but that she wasn't savvy enough to give a definitive answer. The next day she got Mr. Baer to look at it -- Les said the condition isn't a problem and it wouldn't cause the pistol to lose its lock-up. So I guess this saga ends now.

Bullseye, thank you very much for taking the time to answer all my questions, explaining the technical stuff and stifling my worries. I know confidence in your equipment is paramount, I think that is why I've been so insistent about this matter -- I don't want to always be second guessing the pistol. I hope my onslaught of questions and concerns didn't get too annoying.

Moose, thank you for the advice. I've got some of that slide glide stuff, but I haven't used it yet.

Post by **Bullseye** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:17 am

George I understand perfectly, that is why I suggested you contact Les. Now you've done all your research, satisfied your concerns, and I'm sure that your confidence and abilities will grow with that new pistol. No one sees this as annoying, not I, nor would Les. We both know that a relatively new shooter needed some info and we were only happy to provide it. The idea is to get more folks into competitive shooting. If they're happy they will bring a few more folks with them.

Enjoy your new pistol. And keep the questions coming if you see a need.

R,
Bullseye