OVERTHROATING?

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:01 am

Rob as an old Michigander you damn well know that your car, truck, boat, bike or gun has to be at least one or more of the following, Fast, Flashy, Big, Classic, Highly modified or Custom, better yet if you have one that meets all of the above.

Tex, I got into the 10/22 thing a few years ago, started out with a T or target gun, but that was too heavy fr this old man to shoot off hand so I got a carbine, then a carbine with a 4 digit serial number, walnut stock and pre warning barrel was offered to me for 60 buck, so of course I bought it. It is an early 1965 manufacture, Got tho like the looks of the DSP sporter so I bough one of them mainly because it had the dreadded new plastic trigger housing that has to b junk. Well it is not, all the guns have had trigger work to improve them and all have a scope for it is easier for this old man to see the target that way. They all shoot fine and most of them shoot fine with the 2 Buck or so box of ammo. You can put a lot of money into the gun and buy very expensive ammo, but, will 10 times the cost make it shoot ten times better, I SERIOUSLY DOUBT THAT.

greener · Post by **greener** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:18 pm

bearandoldman wrote:Rob as an old Michigander you damn well know that your car, truck, boat, bike or gun has to be at least one or more of the following, Fast, Flashy, Big, Classic, Highly modified or Custom, better yet if you have one that meets all of the above.

Are you describing my V-8, high-chrome snow blower?

Tex, I got into the 10/22 thing a few years ago, started out with a T or target gun, but that was too heavy fr this old man to shoot off hand so I got a carbine, then a carbine with a 4 digit serial number, walnut stock and pre warning barrel was offered to me for 60 buck, so of course I bought it. It is an early 1965 manufacture, Got tho like the looks of the DSP sporter so I bough one of them mainly because it had the dreadded new plastic trigger housing that has to b junk. Well it is not, all the guns have had trigger work to improve them and all have a scope for it is easier for this old man to see the target that way. They all shoot fine and most of them shoot fine with the 2 Buck or so box of ammo. You can put a lot of money into the gun and buy very expensive ammo, but, will 10 times the cost make it shoot ten times better, I SERIOUSLY DOUBT THAT.

The law of diminishing returns. The first 80% is relatively cheap and easy and produces the most change. The remaining 20% gets very expensive for incremental changes that most of us wouldn't notice. The fun part with Rugers and 1911's is that they are so easy to "upgrade" and the after-market parts are almost endless. The fact that they shoot pretty well as-is is no deterrent to fixing them. Some folks ought to be able to just buy a box with the unassembled firearm, it would save them time.

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:30 pm

Rob, do you get enough snow ther to use one or is it just to impress the neghbors???

jaeger45 · Post by **jaeger45** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:12 pm

Snow- I think that's the thang we use to cool our margaritas.

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:55 pm

jaeger45 wrote:Snow- I think that's the thang we use to cool our margaritas.

If you use GOOD Tequila, you do not have to put fruit juice and snow in it t drink it the same asdrinking GOOD bourbon.

Post by **Bullseye** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:06 pm

Lets get this thread back on subject.

I rooted around my pictures and found this picture of barrel throats.

The barrel on the right has a GI barrel. Notice how narrow the feed ramp is cut. This narrow ramp is for feeding ball ammo.

The one on the left is a commercial barrel. The ramp is wider than the GI barrel.

The barrel in the center has had a custom throat job. Notice how the ramp has been widened/opened up for feeding semi wadcutter bullets.

In each of these examples the barrel ramp has not be extended or cut back into the chamber area. Only the ramp area has been beveled wider to facilitate feeding a wider variety of bullet types.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:27 am

Bullseye, I have 3 1911's all made by Springfield Armory and they will all fun most any ammo from FMJ to LSWC including the Federal Hydra Shok with the big hole in the center and CorBon Powerball also. They run fine on my 200 grain LSWC bullets with 6.5 grains of Green Dot under them. The 3 pistols are a Loaded Parkerized, an SA Micro Compact(my carry all the time gun) and my SAv-10 that had some custom work done on it by SA before I purchased it (my sometime carry gun, because it is a 1/2 pound heavier than the Micro)
Never really paid thaat much attention to the throat, probably because they all work good.

jaeger45 · Post by **jaeger45** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:24 am

That barrel on the right which you said is GI immediately caught my attention as I'd never seen anything like it before. All the GI 1911A1s, including an occasional M1911, I'd come across including that time when I lucked out and was issued a brand-new one that came straight from Ordnance storage in its original waxed paper, all had barrels that looked like that one at the left.

Could be that the GI pistol given to you was only for those in shooting teams.

Post by **Bullseye** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:37 am

All our GI match pistols were completely hand fitted and match conditioned with NM parts. No rack grade pistols are used in the competitive arena.

Many of our combat pistols had the barrels to the right. I do have to admit, we also did have some of the barrels on the left. But all of the new spare barrels, parkerized and wrapped in oil paper, had the narrow feed ramps cut into them like the one on the right.

R,
Bullseye

Brian48 · Post by **Brian48** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:43 am

I just bought a stainless 1991 NRM last week. It came with a NM barrel and the throating is identical to the one on the right. No problems feeding the old, truncated cone type 230gr HydraShoks though.

Anyway, I felt the same pain here. I had a gunsmith (and I used the term loosely) ruined the barrel of my Delta Elite by over-throating it like that. Although I never had a case rupture, full power 10mm loads like the 175gr Silvertips exhibited the same type of case bulging. I eventually replaced the barrel with a used one bought from another Delta Elite owner.

Brian48 · Post by **Brian48** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:23 pm

jaeger45 wrote:That barrel on the right which you said is GI immediately caught my attention as I'd never seen anything like it before. All the GI 1911A1s, including an occasional M1911, I'd come across including that time when I lucked out and was issued a brand-new one that came straight from Ordnance storage in its original waxed paper, all had barrels that looked like that one at the left.

Could be that the GI pistol given to you was only for those in shooting teams.

I just found an online review of the same gun that I bought (Colt SS 1991 NRM). According to the author, the barrel on the right is actually Colt's new method of throating the barrel in a way that it allows feeding of hollowpoints, but leaves the maximum amount of support for the bullet casing.

http://www.m1911.org/prodte27.htm

There is one final feature worthy of mention, and that is the new bullet ramp/chamber entry throat configuration. The barrel entry throat is a new style designed to allow reliable feeding of all bullet shapes, yet at the same time not allow an excessive amount of case brass to be left unsupported. It looks like two ramps in one, first a large sweeping ramp then a much smaller "dimple" right at the 6 O'clock position. The setup works perfectly in ensuring reliability, yet is much safer than the older and more common method of creating a huge, sweeping entry throat that would often leave unsupported brass at the bottom.

I re-examined my new 1991 barrel and can say that it's exactly like the one on the right, right down to the narrow barrel hood as pictured.

Post by **Bullseye** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:45 pm

I have no doubt that these barrels are available in the commercial Colt 1911s. They had to do something with the barrels and tooling that they made for their GI contract to recoup the investment. These barrels came out in the very early 1980s as replacements and Colt was the supplier for the contract. Around 1988 the M-9s came into service and the 1911s and the parts packages began being pulled from stock. The last to convert over from the 1911 as an issue weapon was the Navy and they went to M-9 in the mid-1990s. There are still some Spec-Op units that use 1911 platforms but they open purchase their parts supplies from custom manufactures like Kart and Wilson.

R,
Bullseye