I have a question.

Bud33 · Post by **Bud33** » Sun May 15, 2011 4:38 pm

I have been shooting for more years than I like to admit!
My favorite weapon is the 1911 .45 and I have owned a number of them.
In recent years I have noticed something that disturbs me and I am wondering if it bothers anyone else or if I'm just a silly old man.
I have noticed that a large percentage of the time when looking at these guns on display, they are displayed and even pictured, with the hammer back.
Some how this bothers me. I always wonder if the gun is loadded and if it was checked. What happens when the gun is handed to someone else and they pull trigger?
And then there is always the question, is that good for the mainspring?

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Sun May 15, 2011 4:49 pm

Bud, I have 2 1911's that are my normal carry guns. They are always loaded with the hammer back and the safety on, whether on me or on my desk or night table. When I had a gun to anyone I always look to see it it is loaded. Always do the same with mine and I know thy are but look anyway. Whenever you hand someone a gun you should check, just a matter of caution.

Post by **Bullseye** » Sun May 15, 2011 6:08 pm

I always visually check a pistol whenever I personally inspect one or hand one over to a customer to inspect one. If at a someone else's shop, I always ask the proprietor if it is OK if I cycle the slide to inspect the chamber. If they decline I politely walk away.

This practice has always served me well. Once at Perry I found an unattended and loaded 1911 on a couch on Commercial Row. The manager was very relieved when I handed him the open pistol sans magazine and chambered shell. That one could have turned out very differently if someone else had discovered the loaded firearm.

Generally, short term storage will not weaken a mainspring. Many pistols do not stay in the display case for a long enough time to suffer from having the hammer cocked and locked.

R,
Bullseye

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Sun May 15, 2011 6:22 pm

Bullseye wrote:I always visually check a pistol whenever I personally inspect one or hand one over to a customer to inspect one. If at a someone else's shop, I always ask the proprietor if it is OK if I cycle the slide to inspect the chamber. If they decline I politely walk away.

R,
Bullseye

That has happened to me a few times also, but I was not polite some of the time. Depends on their attitude, you know.

blue68f100 · Post by **blue68f100** » Sun May 15, 2011 8:00 pm

My LGS normally will have a mix but in most cases they lower the hammer before putting it back in the case. When they take one out they Always remove the magazine and clear/lock the slide back to confirm the gun is clear. The magazine goes back into the case most of the time, unless equipped with a mag disconnect. They will let you evaluate it with the gun if you ask. They lower the hammer before handing you the gun, if they can. The Kimber I looked at had such a strong RS and small slide release button he could not release it (he had large hands). I always ask if it ok to dry fire.

The hammer back on a 1911 style gun does not bother me. Knowing that is the way they are design to be carried. If you look at most photos in gun brochures they (1911's) are most always cocked.

greener · Post by **greener** » Mon May 16, 2011 11:26 pm

Something about it being loaded until you verify that it either is or is not?

I don't think you have anything to worry about in a gun shop. But, when I handle one, I clear it first. I don't mind the hammer back on 1911's sitting in the case, but they should, IMO, be stored uncocked.

Hakaman · Post by **Hakaman** » Wed May 18, 2011 12:05 am

but they should, IMO, be stored uncocked.

If I were carrying one, I prefer them uncocked. I'm pretty fast on the draw.
Haka

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Wed May 18, 2011 4:03 am

Hakaman wrote:
but they should, IMO, be stored uncocked.
If I were carrying one, I prefer them uncocked. I'm pretty fast on the draw.
Haka

That is a good way to have an accidental discharge or worse.
safest way to carry a 1911 is unloaded chamber but that makes it pretty useless for self defense. Best to carry as I was taught, cocked and locked with a loaded chamber and mag.

greener · Post by **greener** » Wed May 18, 2011 6:56 am

bearandoldman wrote:
Hakaman wrote:
but they should, IMO, be stored uncocked.
If I were carrying one, I prefer them uncocked. I'm pretty fast on the draw.
Haka
That is a good way to have an accidental discharge or worse.
safest way to carry a 1911 is unloaded chamber but that makes it pretty useless for self defense. Best to carry as I was taught, cocked and locked with a loaded chamber and mag.

I know some folks who are pretty good on the "Israeli draw" technique: draw, cycle the slide as part of aiming and fire. They are fast enough that your hardly notice the extra motion. All I've seen them do is the draw, chamber and fire drills. When I try that you can time the shot with a sundial.

I prefer the locked and cocked carry to an empty chamber.

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Wed May 18, 2011 7:40 am

what good is a carry gun that isn't ready to fire? a 1911 won't fire unless the thumb safety is switched down, the grip safety is depressed, AND the trigger is pulled. thats 4 safeties (trigger finger into the trigger guard is #4) that has to be overcome in order to fire how much more safe can you get other than switching to an airsoft gun? if it ain't loaded its a paperweight or a small club at best.

bud33 I don't think it would hurt the mainspring to leave it cocked in the case, it was meant to be carried that way. I would bet there are some 1911's out there that stay in a cocked position for months on end with out ill effect. just my .02 on it.

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Wed May 18, 2011 7:44 am

greener wrote:I know some folks who are pretty good on the "Israeli draw" technique: draw, cycle the slide as part of aiming and fire. They are fast enough that your hardly notice the extra motion. All I've seen them do is the draw, chamber and fire drills. When I try that you can time the shot with a sundial.

I prefer the locked and cocked carry to an empty chamber.

I'd like to see them do the Israeli draw under stress, most likely they would pull the trigger on an empty chamber.

I believe in KISS for self defense techniques. (KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID!)

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Wed May 18, 2011 8:46 am

I used to be able to do the Israeli draw very fast and without problems, but under stress it does take time, The worst part is it tke a hand gun and makes it a HANDSSSS gun, nuff said, eh?

blue68f100 · Post by **blue68f100** » Wed May 18, 2011 9:17 am

I was at my brother house (spending the night) and removed my gun/holster for the evening, putting it beside where I was going to sleep. My sister in-law saw the gun and asked me if it was loaded. I told her if I wanted an Unloaded gun I would have left it at the house. A gun not ready to fire is like the Greener's and BOM have said, useless. Condition 1 on a 1911 style (SA) gun is the correct way to carry one. If you want to carry with the hammer down you need to move to a DAO or DA/SA gun.

They do make 1911 style guns in DA now, I think I saw one on Kimber site. I think you also get the dreaded Mag Safety to go with it as requested by Ca. Mag safeties have no use in a carry gun.

Maybe one day they will have a reliable finger print ID system to only allow the gun to fire to the registered owner. Just doesn't work if you have gloves though.

Bud33 · Post by **Bud33** » Wed May 18, 2011 11:31 am

Thanks for all the replies... I don't plan to carry the .45 its to heavy!!! I have an LCP in my pocket at all times.
I just enjoy shooting the .45 after more than ten years of competition.
Don't have the strength in my hands to manage the Israeli draw.
The Range Officer will not be a safe Queen though.... It will loaded and locked in the bedside night stand when not at the range.

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Wed May 18, 2011 2:06 pm

blue68f100 wrote: They do make 1911 style guns in DA now, I think I saw one on Kimber site. I think you also get the dreaded Mag Safety to go with it as requested by Ca. Mag safeties have no use in a carry gun.

Maybe one day they will have a reliable finger print ID system to only allow the gun to fire to the registered owner. Just doesn't work if you have gloves though.

para ordinance make a gem of a DA 1911. trigger feels like a light da revolver.

ref the fingerprint ID gun.... murphy would love that. just why would you trust electonics and batteries to work when you needed something to save your life? I carry a taser at work, but i also carry a Baton because it won't fail to work (no computer gremlins and the batteries are always good!

) when I need a less leathal option.