Ethics Question

greener · Post by **greener** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:54 pm

You start chatting with a couple of shooters at the range. He mentions that he likes Rugers but isn't so sure about the quality of their semi-autos based on a P90 he just bought from a neighbor. He says the pistol jams feeding .45 ammo. You try the pistol and, sure enough, about every other round doesn't feed entirely into the chamber and quite some effort is required to move the slide back and extract the ammo. He is shooting 200 grain (Frontier from the looks) coated metal jacket semiwadcutters purchased from some reloader. He is disgusted with the pistol and mentions taking it to a gun smith and he regrets paying $250 for the pistol.

Do you
(a) do the wallet fast draw and offer him his purchase price;
(b) say nothing and let him go to the smith: or
(c) suggest he try some commercial 230gr FMJ (ball) ammo before doing anything else?

blue68f100 · Post by **blue68f100** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:10 pm

I would suggest trying the 230gr RN ammo, premium grade ammo. Then tell him if that does not work you will take it off his hands.

Post by **Bullseye** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:14 pm

For me it would be (C) then followed up with a (D) offer to help him by giving him some known quality ammo to try in his pistol. If he's just too fed up to deal with it then I might go the (A) route, if I really wanted a P90. For me it wouldn't be my first time that I went to the range only to end up spending all my enjoyment time assisting someone I barely know through problems with their firearms or technique.

R,
Bullseye

bigfatdave · Post by **bigfatdave** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:31 pm

In the information age I don't take ignorance as an excuse.

If someone had a gun with an easily diagnosed/cured "problem" and it was a gun I wanted, I'd lowball them to buy it as a "parts gun". I wouldn't buy a gun for the purpose of repair and resale, but more because I'm lazy than for ethical reasons.

One of these days someone will take me up on the offer to buy their "impossible to work on" Ruger mk__ ... or one of those "cheap junky pot-metal" Henry leverguns I keep reading about, or the guy who's afraid to take his guns down because "it might void the warranty" will get fed up with the powder-residue induced "jams" he keeps having, I think he has a CCO size Kimber currently being neglected in that fashion, he'll get bored and trade it off at a massive loss per his S.O.P. soon, why shouldn't I be the one to benefit this time around?

greener · Post by **greener** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:39 pm

C. They looked into their range bag and found some WWB 230gr FMJ. The P90 fired that flawlessly. I did enjoy helping them troubleshoot the pistol.

If he was still disgusted with the pistol, I'd have tried the wallet fast draw, but I already have a P90.

greener · Post by **greener** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:41 pm

bigfatdave wrote: One of these days someone will take me up on the offer to buy their "impossible to work on" Ruger mk__ ... or one of those "cheap junky pot-metal" Henry leverguns I keep reading about, or the guy who's afraid to take his guns down because "it might void the warranty" will get fed up with the powder-residue induced "jams" he keeps having, I think he has a CCO size Kimber currently being neglected in that fashion, he'll get bored and trade it off at a massive loss per his S.O.P. soon, why shouldn't I be the one to benefit this time around?

I keep hoping to find one of these guys, never seem to.

Hakaman · Post by **Hakaman** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:23 am

I don't enjoy taking advantage of someone who is an inexperienced (sort of like me) shooter.
Life is too short and temporary. If I could, I would help him resolve their problem.
Haka

ruger22 · Post by **ruger22** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:03 am

In a similar situation, I'd offer a positive suggestion if I know one, or a source of help if I know one. We are a shooting fraternity of sorts, and brothers shouldn't take any advantage of another.

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:26 am

Not particularly interested in that pistol so I would probably tell him to buy some decent ammo, like factory stuff. .45ACP is very susceptible to ht type of failure due to ammo not being properly crimped. Do not ever buy ammo from a back room reloader, you never know what the quality of his merchandise is.

Hakaman · Post by **Hakaman** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:03 pm

Not particularly interested in that pistol so I would probably tell him to buy some decent ammo

What if you were interested in that gun?

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:16 pm

Hakaman wrote:
Not particularly interested in that pistol so I would probably tell him to buy some decent ammo
What if you were interested in that gun?

Gun, not temp.Probably wave some green at him and maybe take it home, if it was not HOT.

arizona-hermit · Post by **arizona-hermit** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:34 am

While I rarely shoot reloads anymore (read too lazy to roll my own and do not trust anyones else's hand mades) my P90 has reliably fed everything I have thrown at it in the past couple decades (cripes, is it that old already....).

I would buy the thing in a heartbeat since I have huge hands and it feels just right to me.

It is a tank, plain and simple.

bgreenea3 · Post by **bgreenea3** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:50 pm

I've more than once helped someone through a gun issue at the range or at the gun counter

I think it is more ethical to help out a fellows shooter than to take advantage of him/her ..... But if they were set on selling I might take them up on the offer.......

greener · Post by **greener** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:29 am

bgreenea3 wrote:I've more than once helped someone through a gun issue at the range or at the gun counter I think it is more ethical to help out a fellows shooter than to take advantage of him/her ..... But if they were set on selling I might take them up on the offer.......

They were happy that the gun worked and liked the way it fired. And I was satisfied with being an "expert" who correctly diagnosed the problem.

) my P90 has reliably fed everything I have thrown at it in the past couple decades

Mine can be a bit cranky about not getting the OAL and crimp right.

(cripes, is it that old already....)[/quote

I'm sure it's a sign of something when I start talking in decades, but I can't remember what it is a sign of.

Baldy · Post by **Baldy** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:29 pm

Over the years I have helped a lot of people at the range. I really enjoy it if I can get someone going down the right track.

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