Range Rpt Savage 16 7mm-08

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charlesb
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Range Rpt Savage 16 7mm-08

Post by charlesb » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:41 pm

It's been windy lately, but this morning it was very calm so I took my Savage model 16 that I have mounted a 24" 7mm-8 barrel onto - to the range for test firing.

The scope is a Nikon Monarch 4-16x42 Side-focus, in Leupold medium rings.

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I have been loading Hornady 139 grain SST spitzers with a plastic tip, with 39.5 grains of Varget and Winchester large rifle primers into Norma brass.

So far the new barrel has had 75 rounds through it. - I am hoping that it will produce better groups soon.

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I think the next batch of bullets I buy will be heavier, the 162 grain SST's and hope that the rifle will like those better.

The guns original barrel, a 24" 'magnum weight' in .243 did not shoot well until I tried 70 grain bullets. After that, I soon had it shooting five rounds into 1/2" at 100 yards.
The 7mm-08 barrel is 24" but of sporter weight, a bit slimmer so if I can get it to shoot the heavier slugs into 1" or less I'll be very happy, it is intended for medium to long range shots at mule deer, aoudad sheep and possibly elk so a heavier bullet would be good for these large, tough animals.

I have had very good luck in the past with 139 grain bullets in 7mm for white-tail deer, but it looks like here is my chance to try something different. - I'll save the last 50 139 grain loads that I have left for a direct comparison with the 162's.

7mm-08 is a new cartridge for me. I'd appreciate any advice or pet loads. It's a pleasure to shoot, and the rifle is a lot handier with the sporter weight barrel.

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Post by blue68f100 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:23 pm

Looks good,

I have never had any luck with ammo developed for 1 gun shoot as good in another. I always ending up developing new loads. Sometimes that means different bullets (wt & mfg), powder, even primers. The vertical string is normally just difference is velocity. Which could be charge or neck tension. Some times you find after a # of firings you hit one node that greatly improves. Just takes good records to pick up on this.

Keep at it, I know you will find that sweet node.
David

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Post by charlesb » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:53 am

This is another one of those situations where I wish that I could just mount a barrel-tuner and simply adjust the barrel harmonics instead of trying out a series of loads, hoping that I'll luck into something that works well with that barrel.

They have a tuner at Brownells but it has limitations. First, it is not very attractive and second, it has a muzzle-brake with no option to turn it off or disable it.

I think I could disable the brake with a rolled-up piece of stainless-steel shim stock - but I don't know for sure and it would cost me about 200 bucks to find out.

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/ba ... d1540.aspx

I think I'll write Browning and suggest that they put the BOSS unit on the aftermarket. - That's really the best tuner for centerfire rifles that I have seen, and they no longer offer the A-bolt rifle which it was an option for.

Once again, I wish I had my lathe set up... If I did, I'd just roll my own and be done with it.

With a tuner, you can get dialed in with ten rounds or less. - That's a heck of lot more sensible than firing dozens of experimental handloads to accomplish the same thing. - Also, you can use a tuner to get accuracy out of just about any quality factory load. That's another big plus in some situations.

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Post by stork » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:29 pm

Charles,
Have you tried a ladder test yet?

It really saves components and speeds up finding the sweet spots for velocity.

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Post by charlesb » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:43 pm

I haven't tried a ladder test with this gun. It's still getting broken in with inexpensive bullets, I bought a box of 100 Hornady 139 grain SST's for that. What I am doing is giving it lots of time between shots, and cleaning it every three rounds whether it needs it or not while the barrel gets polished out.

The bullets I intend to use will be heavier and a bit more expensive. I'll try the Nosler 150 grn ballistic tip and the Hornady 162 grn SST bullets first, hoping the Noslers will work out well but willing to give the Hornadys a try if the gun seems to like them best.

In any case, the 7mm-08 is really a bit anemic for long shots at large animals, I'll be wanting the loads to be pretty close to maximum so the window of load variation there is going to be slim.

With a tuner, I could just pick out my favorite bullet (Nosler 150) develop a maximum load and then tune the barrel for best accuracy with that load.

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Post by stork » Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:01 am

Charles,
If you haven't already, look at the 120 Ballistic tip.

My deer hunting bud shoots a Tikka in 708 and I shoot a Rem 700 in 708 Imp. While I could never get the 120 to shoot out of mine, it shot really well in both his 708 and 7 Rem Mag. I witnessed him take a whitetail doe lying in a harvested corn field at just over 400 with the 120 in his 708. One shot, never moved. In the 7 mag, the trajectory was very impressive.

Steve Timm, one of the writers for the Varmint Hunter Magazine, did a lot of writing on the 708 imp with the 120. He was using it for anything up to Elk size. While that wouldn't be my first choice, he was selective with his shots and did well with it.
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Post by charlesb » Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:05 pm

I would not feel confident of a humane kill with a light bullet on large and tough animals, no matter how well it is constructed.

I've seen some of the aoudad sheep in my neighborhood, they are big and tough critters as sheep go. Some of the mule deer here are the size of a quarter-horse, and the elk are truly enormous.

I bet the 120's would make a great pig or white-tail load though, and would be good for paper-punching.

Note that I am biased though, I was a big-bore magnum aficionado in my youth, and have only gone over to medium bores after growing old and bony-shouldered.

If I had my druthers, I'd have a good .338 or .458 Winchester Magnum and use it for just about everything. ( Loaded down for white-tails, etc. )

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Post by stork » Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:30 pm

I hear what you're saying. Back when I didn't care about recoil, I loved the 338 WM. You could eat right up to the bullet hole.

Flash forward to a few years ago, I used a Tikka in 223 with 60 partitians for my whitetail. Never would be my first choice, but I was going in the next week for rotator cuff sugery. 1 shot in the neck at 50 yards.
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Post by charlesb » Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:16 am

It looks like I won't be buying reloading components for a while. There's a gun show coming up here at the end of next month. I have two tables reserved and will want as big a wad of cash as I can manage for the show, so I'm saving up all of my loose change for that.

I'm planning on offering video bore-scope service right there at the show for twenty bucks a pop. It will make me popular with some, unpopular with others. - It's an experiment that I hope will not get me in Dutch with the other vendors.

If I can sell my M1A and accessories, I'll be in a good position to try for a Winchester 1885 low-wall in .222 Remington that I've had my eye on. It seems like that would make an ideal range gun... Pretty, cheap to load for, and accurate enough to be interesting.

I was digging around through my bullets and found a box of Sierra 160 grain BTHP in 7mm that I can load up for the 7mm-08 in the mean-time. - Left-overs from a 7mm Rem Mag that I had a while back, and had forgotten about.

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Post by blue68f100 » Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:10 pm

The Sierra 160gr is my preferred bullet for my 7mm Mag.

Good luck with your bore service and selling off your old stock.


I'm starting to hear some report that WST has been showing up at some places. I would sure like to come up with a couple of 8# jugs. I do have other powders I can use if need be. The last gun show I went to last month was slim pickens when it came to powders. Mostly IMR and some Hodgons. I have enough powder to carry me through the year. I have not bought any powders since all this madness started. I figured it would last 9mo to 1 yr but it's over double that now so I'm starting to get low. I'm seeing primers every where and at a reasonable price.
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Post by charlesb » Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:53 pm

The Sierra Gameking 160 grn BTHP bullets did well on the first try. - I loaded five rounds with 48 grains of H4831, a slightly compressed load for a guestimated 2590 fps. The maximum load was 49.5 grains, but I'm not sure how they got that much into a 7mm-08 case. At 48 grains, it came right up to the base of the neck.

After firing five rounds of my old 139 grain loads to get the rifle settled in, I tried the 160's and they did pretty well. - It was looking like maybe five rounds were going to go into an inch, but I flinched one out so it was a 1.5" group instead.

I had to back off on the recommended OAL with these 160 grain Sierras, they hit the rifling before the bolt could close, so I measured and found out I had to seat them .035" deeper to miss the rifling so the bolt would close easily on them.

I didn't have a bullet seating gauge, so I filed the point off of a cleaning jag so that it had a flat face. With the bolt closed and the rifle cocked, I put the cleaning rod in the muzzle until the jag hit the bolt face, then I pulled it out a bit, marked it with a sharpie, put it back in and used a scribe to mark a line even with the muzzle.

Then I took the bolt out, put a bullet (not cartridge) in the chamber and used a pistol cleaning rod to push the bullet up until it was contacting the rifling and would go no further.

Then I measured from the muzzle and scribed another mark. When I measured between the marks with dial calipers, I subtracted .020" from that and I had my cartridge OAL.

I am not used to compressed loads and discovered that the bullet had to be ran up into the seating die twice in order to seat at the right depth. - The first time didn't do it.

Compressed loads leave you with 100% loading density but I think I'm going to either reduce the load, or go to another powder. - I tried H4831 because I had a new can of it sitting around, unused.

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Post by blue68f100 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:37 pm

Those that use compressed loads use a long/tall drop tube off the powder dispenser. This kind of pre-compress the charge as it goes in .

As far as find the max OAL on a rifle round. I take a old fired brass and slot the neck. Then I place the bullet I'm using into the slotted neck. Then let the rifling push the bullet into the neck. Then you can take that measurement to your seating die minus your preferred off set. Some time you may meed to put a partial neck size to hold the bullet tight enough. I do this for every bullet type/weight I shoot, since all are different.

If your happen to have the RCBS Precision Mic you can actually get a measurement. Then load one and use the mic as a reference to see where your at. You could use anything to contact the bullet ogive to use for reference.
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Post by charlesb » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:09 pm

Now I have a piece of 7mm-08 brass that I can slot the neck on.

I tried five rounds of a 160 grain Sierra load with 39 grains of A2495 and noticed that the primers looked flat when I ejected the brass. The last round gave me a sticky bolt, and came out with no primer! Upon investigation, I found the primer had fallen down into the magazine. It would go into the primer pocket with finger pressure, and fall right back out when I inverted the casing and shook it a little.

Wouldn't you know it, those five rounds gave me the best group I've had with the 7mm-08 barrel, by far. All but one were touching at 100 yards.

Back home, I tried a new primer on that piece of brass, and it also went in with finger pressure and fell out easily.

So now I know that I need to back off on the A2495 load - and I have a piece of 7mm-08 brass that I can slot the neck on, for setting bullet depth.

I always try to look for the sunny side of unhappy situations that come up... This is the first time that I've experienced a serious pressure issue with a reload. All of the loads were measured with the powder scale individually, but apparently something went wrong somewhere. - Probably something about the long, deep-seated 160 grain bullet, as the COL with my barrel is .020" shorter than the recommended COL in order to keep the bullet off of the lands.

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Post by blue68f100 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:08 am

Now that you have some fired formed brass you can also determine how far the shoulder needs to be pushed back. Primers are normally a poor indicator of pressure but the sticking bolt is a major one. Reduced case volume is always a concern as well as thicker wall brass (mil) when it comes to pressure. Are you going to neck size or FL size?

Sounds like your on the right track and getting close.
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Post by charlesb » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:34 pm

Right now I'm using Lee collet neck-sizing dies, but will eventually need a FL sizer as well.

The Lee dies require no lubrication, but you have to size, then rotate the case 90 degrees and size again for really consistent results.

Am negotiating for a 24" magnum contour SS barrel in .222 Remington for the model 16 Savage, so I need to develop a 7mm-08 load soon before the barrel gets swapped out. I probably have a couple of months to do that before the new .222 barrel comes in, it's going to be a special order.

I already have a great load developed for my heavy .243 Winchester barrel, I taped the load info to the barrel when it was put away for storage.

I like the switch barrel thing with my Savage, it takes maybe half an hour to change barrels... That's just because I tend to be slow and deliberate, a habit from my gunsmithing days when I was being paid by the hour.

Others claim that a Savage barrel-swap really only takes ten minutes, but I see getting in a hurry as a good way to make a boo-boo of some kind, sooner or later.

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