Army wants to replace the 9mm

The place to discuss items of a general nature or items that do not fit into the other categories.

Moderators: Bullseye, Moderators

Post Reply
greener

Army wants to replace the 9mm

Post by greener » Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:34 pm

They want something with more punch.

I believe there were number of less than positive comments about the 9mm. I really didn't like the Beretta.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014 ... =army-a.nl

Is this under the heading of "we told you so?"

I still betcha if shot by a 9mm you would get an owee.

User avatar
charlesb
Master contributor
Master contributor
Posts: 689
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:39 pm
Location: Mountains of West Texas

Post by charlesb » Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:27 pm

Seems like a kind of retreat from NATO, at least as far as shared munitions go. May be another slap in the face of our allies, like the Churchill bust that was sent back to the Brits in 08, the asinine behavior toward Israel, etc..

I would guess that .40 S&W would be the logical choice, if a change must be made. Works in many firearm designs, not too heavy or bulky to haul around, etc.. Similar in energy if not in stopping power to the .45 ACP.

Would be surprised to see the single-action 1911 re-adopted, or the .45 ACP cartridge.

Have read somewhere that the 9mm is not quite as powerful as the .38 special that was so disappointing during the Boxer rebellion, leading to the eventual adoption of the .45 ACP.
Last edited by charlesb on Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Bullseye
Site Admin/Host
Site Admin/Host
Posts: 6371
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:23 pm
Location: USA

Post by Bullseye » Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:02 pm

SOCOM forces came to a realization about the ineffectiveness of the 9mm very early on after the switchover to the M9 service pistol. That is why they developed the MK 23 SOCOM pistol in 45 ACP. Many other SOC commands, like the Marines MEU-SOC, just kept and modified their 1911s for CQB. The Army procures all handgun ammunition for the services so SOCOM had to use their liberal budgets to open purchase sufficient quantities of 45 ACP because the Army stopped buying 45ACP shortly after the M9 was adopted. I also recall how they all touted that the lesser recoil of the 9mm would result in a higher accuracy rate as it had a lighter recoil than the 45. FWIW, I had many opportunities to use the MK23 and it performed well, but I found it comparatively on the same physical size level as a Desert Eagle. Even with my big hands, it was not really a comfortable shooting platform. I cannot imagine a pistol of that nature mixed in with the varying hand sizes of today's mixed gender forces.

R,
Bullseye
Image

greener

Post by greener » Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:35 am

I never noticed that much difference in recoil, but I suppose there is. Probably me, but I didn't like the M9 and noticed a decided drop in accuracy. You do get to carry more ammo in the pistol with the M9. So, does that balance?

bgreene says I need an M&P45c instead of my 9mm. I'm sure he is right.

stork
Advanced contributor
Advanced contributor
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:12 am
Location: North Dakota

Post by stork » Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:23 am

I have to agree with the way the M9 never fit. Long before I took up shooting the 1911 (1999) the M9 just never felt right. You know what I mean, some pistols you pick up and they just feel right. Others feel like a 2x4 and never get better.

The 1911 was one of those that just felt right every time I picked it up. To others the M9 was the one that felt right (Jim Henderson for one) and they did fantastic with it.

To each his own.
Al
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” – George Washington

User avatar
Coach1
Regular contributor
Regular contributor
Posts: 210
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:09 pm
Location: Apex North Carolina

Post by Coach1 » Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:19 pm

I suspect this debate wil rage for a decade at least. I will admit to a string prefrence for well made 9mm autos. (no Beretta, tho) But I really like my new S&W 1911SC. ( The only .45 cal in my collection.)

The ripple affects for any US Army sidearm change are likely to ne big and unpredictable. If a .45 is selected, will we see a major toightening of .45 ammo for the public, LEO(?), etc? Perhaps we will see a flood of surplus nilitarry 9mm ? Or will we sell / give that to NATO?

It seems to me that all the parties have a 'dog in-the fight' and will
spin-doctor the story to suit his own agenda.
Coach
"You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need." The Rolling Stones

User avatar
Coach1
Regular contributor
Regular contributor
Posts: 210
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:09 pm
Location: Apex North Carolina

Post by Coach1 » Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:48 pm

Umm Sorry for all those typos above. I was not able to spell check my post .. since the wife was jumping up / down on my head to get out the door for an appointment. (I always blame my typos on my wife . Don't tell her, tho ) 8-)

Don't you just hate it when life gets in the way of your shooting endeavors?
Coach
"You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need." The Rolling Stones

stork
Advanced contributor
Advanced contributor
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:12 am
Location: North Dakota

Post by stork » Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:54 pm

Coach1,
Must be a combination of not enough coffee and CRS, but I didn't catch any typos until I reread it a couple times.

I guess we don't have any ex-spelling/grammar teachers on this board who will keep us after school if we fail to properly use the kings English.

al
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” – George Washington

User avatar
Coach1
Regular contributor
Regular contributor
Posts: 210
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:09 pm
Location: Apex North Carolina

Post by Coach1 » Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:46 pm

Al,
That is kind of you to overlook my fat-fingered typing.
But back to the thread topic...

I will be interested in any news / reports on this 'open call' by the army. This posting is the first heads-up I have seen. You would think the trade mags and email spams would have shared this already. I think this is sort of a big deal.
Greener, thanks for sharing it here.
Coach
"You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need." The Rolling Stones

User avatar
Hardball
Regular contributor
Regular contributor
Posts: 134
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:37 am
Location: Oregon

Post by Hardball » Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:38 am

Perhaps the CMP will then have another round of rule changes coming.

Post Reply