Nickel plated pistol cases and carbide dies

Georgezilla · Post by **Georgezilla** » Sat May 16, 2009 4:03 pm

I've read on a couple people's re-loading blogs that nickel plated pistol cases will scratch and otherwise damage carbide dies. Is this true?

Is case lube is necessary for straight walled pistol cases? Or perhaps you only need to use it on nickel plated cases?

Downeaster · Post by **Downeaster** » Sat May 16, 2009 5:00 pm

I have reloaded literally thousands of nickel-plated .38SPL and .357 cases. My Lee carbide dies show no sign of scratching or marring. The cases have received no special treatment beyond tumbling in corncob media with a little Lyman case cleaner added once every other blue moon.

Also, I have never lubed a straight wall pistol case of any caliber, nickel or brass, and I've never had one stick.

greener · Post by **greener** » Sun May 17, 2009 7:56 am

Although carbide dies are generally accepted as "last forever" without lube, Lee says that "Nickel plated brass typically has a rough edge or burr around the inside of the case mouth, which will score the expander plug severely if this burr is not removed. Our Chamfer tool (catalog #90109) works well for removing the rough edge and it is important to do so before the sizing operation." I'm not sure whether they are talking about their steel or carbide die.

I generally don't reload nickel plated brass.

bearandoldman · Post by **bearandoldman** » Sun May 17, 2009 9:02 am

greener wrote:Although carbide dies are generally accepted as "last forever" without lube, Lee says that "Nickel plated brass typically has a rough edge or burr around the inside of the case mouth, which will score the expander plug severely if this burr is not removed. Our Chamfer tool (catalog #90109) works well for removing the rough edge and it is important to do so before the sizing operation." I'm not sure whether they are talking about their steel or carbide die.

I generally don't reload nickel plated brass.

I have reloaded some nickel plated cases in .38 spl with no problems, maybe after 10K it may but I seriously doubt it. From my old machinist days if memory serves me correctly, carbide is a lot harder than nickel.

greener · Post by **greener** » Sun May 17, 2009 9:50 am

bearandoldman wrote:
greener wrote:Although carbide dies are generally accepted as "last forever" without lube, Lee says that "Nickel plated brass typically has a rough edge or burr around the inside of the case mouth, which will score the expander plug severely if this burr is not removed. Our Chamfer tool (catalog #90109) works well for removing the rough edge and it is important to do so before the sizing operation." I'm not sure whether they are talking about their steel or carbide die.

I generally don't reload nickel plated brass.
I have reloaded some nickel plated cases in .38 spl with no problems, maybe after 10K it may but I seriously doubt it. From my old machinist days if memory serves me correctly, carbide is a lot harder than nickel.

Tungsten carbide is much harder and less prone to wear than nickel. I'm not a metallurgist but I think some nickel plating ends up a bit harder than steel. The longer lasting cutting implements (saws, drills, router bits, etc) are carbide coated to make them last longer. Wire drawing dies are generally carbide or diamond coated to make them last longer.

I'm not sure how much of a carbide die set is "carbide." From what I've read the carbide in sizing dies is a ring in the die and the rest is steel. Lee's factory crimp die is a "carbide" die. Both work on the outside of the case. I'm not sure if the Lee expander die is carbide coated. If not, the inside of the case mouth could score the the plug.

Although a few nickel plated casings slip through, I use brass casings almost exclusively. I have more than I'll probably load in a long time. I did notice that the commercial .38 Plus P rounds I bought were nickle plated. Makes them easier to distinguish from standard .38's, I suppose. If I ever reload Plus P's, I probably would buy a case reamer. I doubt I'll reload much, if any, Plus P .38's. .357 magnum is a better round and a .38 special with a 125gr JHP loaded on the high end of the accepted loads will probably do about as much.

I do know a couple folks who reload nickle-plated almost exclusively. They say it makes finding their brass easier. I don't know if they ream the casings before reloading or have any problems with scoring.

Georgezilla · Post by **Georgezilla** » Sun May 17, 2009 9:20 pm

That's interesting that the Lee manual mentions Nickel plated brass. The Dillon manual doesn't mention it at all.
I don't think I'll run nickel plated brass through my press in any great number.

I know a few people who reload a lot of nickel plated brass as well. The longest distance they seem to shoot at is 7yrds and some of their reloads look pretty questionable -- so I figured they may not be good examples to follow.

Python · Post by **Python** » Mon May 18, 2009 8:30 pm

Just my .02 cents

Carbide dies are not a problem with nickel plated brass.
Steel dies however will be ruined when the nickel flakes imbead into the dies and scratches every case that you size.(deep scratches that you can catch/ feel with your fingernail).
Don't ask me how I know this

Clarence Perkins
2529 club : )
D.R.= 6 points

greener · Post by **greener** » Mon May 18, 2009 10:18 pm

Python,

Sounds as though you are in tune with one of life's great mysteries.

Python · Post by **Python** » Mon May 18, 2009 11:09 pm

greener;

Yah, about 7 years ago got into reloading .45's.
RCBS steel die set(still have it in the back room using it to scavenge decapper pin and ect.).
Used it for brass shells for awhile, then started using and reloading the nickel plated.
After reloading an amount of nickel cases went back to brass cases and scratched every one of them badly.

Lesson learned.

CARBIDE PISTOL DIES ONLY, FROM HERE ON OUT !!!

I was new to reloading pistol and went on the cheap with steel dies.
Get the carbide for a little more and never look back.

Clarence G. Perkins
2529 club : )
D.R.= 6 points

Georgezilla · Post by **Georgezilla** » Mon May 18, 2009 11:45 pm

My metallurgy knowledge is almost non-existent. I thought the only difference between steel and carbide dies was that carbide is, to some degree, self-lubricating.

greener · Post by **greener** » Wed May 20, 2009 5:42 pm

I emailed Lee and asked if their warning about needing to use the chamfer tool for nickel plated brass to prevent damage to the expander die applied to carbide die sets. Their response was that the expander plug was not carbide and the warning applied to "carbide" die sets also.

Python · Post by **Python** » Wed May 20, 2009 11:38 pm

Went to the back room and found the RCBS .45 steel die set.
The only scratches are on the inside of the sizing die.
The die that bells the case mouth is perfect.
My scratches were on the outside of the case.
As I recall, I had some scratching on the inside of the case, but probably came from fragments of nickel still on the case from sizing it.
The inside of the sizing die is imbeaded with nickel and has deep scoring which transfers to brass cases.

Maybe if I would have chamfered the cases before I ran it through the sizing die, then would have been alright, do not know.(I am talking steel sizing die).

As far as carbide being self lubricating, I have to say that it is so hard that nothing gets in it's way and nothing will imbead in it.

Look at your carbide tipped 3006 ammo, it will just penetrate steel, it does not get overcome by anything in it's path.

Just my thoughts...

Georgezilla · Post by **Georgezilla** » Wed May 20, 2009 11:46 pm

Greener, thanks a lot for getting that info. Python, thank you very much for sharing your personal encounters when it comes to reloading nickel brass with steel dies. When I made this thread I figured it would be a clear cut yes or no, but the subject seems to have more depth than that. Until I get around to purchasing one of the chamfer tools, I think I will abstain from re-loading nickel cases. But who knows, I may get brave seeing as the dies have a "no questions asked" warranty.

I understand there probably Isn't that much to worry about with carbide dies, but I've always been pretty cautious with the equipment I use. You should see my face when I notice a scratch on one of the firearms I use...

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:42 pm

Before I bought the carbide die for my ( 2 x38 & 1 x357 ) steel die sets I loaded hundreds, maybe thousands of plated 38 and 357 cases. I had no trouble with any of my steel sizing dies. I made sure to wipe off the crud that collects on cases before lubing and sizing them. My steel dies are still usable and any scratches are minor at the worst.

After I bought the carbide die I did the same routine until I got my vibratory tumbler. After that I quit wiping off the individual cases. Just tumbled them and sized them.
I've been using the same RCBS carbide die for over 25 years now and it's still working fine. No scratches of any kind.

The expanders in the three die sets show burnishing from untold thousands of cases being run over them. Many of these plated. None of the expanders have any major scratches from nickeled cases.
One set is Redding, the other two RCBS. I don't normally chamfer pistol cases unless they are trimmed. And I rarely need to trim them.

I suspect Lee uses a different steel in their expanders than the other companies. Perhaps a softer alloy. That would explain their cautions about chamfering the case mouths.

Joe

greener · Post by **greener** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:59 pm

Joe, sounds like you just about solved the problem. If your dies "died" tomorrow, they've given pretty good service.