Timed Fire

[piasashooter]

For a string of timed fire, the shooter is given 20 seconds. My question is how much of the twenty seconds do you guys use. I her people say, if you are given 20 seconds, then you should use the 20 seconds. For me, in order to use the whole 20 seconds I would have to purposely sit and waist time, even though my dot has lowered and settled in the black. A string of timed fire takes me about 12-13 seconds. Would like to hear any ideas or opinions on timed fire. Thanks in advance for all replies.

[blue68f100]

I don't shoot competition but if I shoot for a good score it's more on timing and rythem. Soon as the barrel comes back down on target I let another one go. Sometimes this is rather fast sometimes not. It all depends on what the wind is doing and how my concentration is doing.

[Bullseye]

The answer is generally as fast a pace as you feel comfortable with for timed fire. You do not have to use all twenty seconds, that's like using all 10 minutes in slow fire. Granted, I done this before for slow fire but not intentionally. If everything's settling and breaking perfectly then just roll with it. More often than not my timed and rapid fire sequences end up at about the same pace. Think about it for a second, you're only training to shoot at two different speeds instead of three. This method also takes that active, thinking, mind out of the equation. Which means by shooting at the quicker pace you're just focusing on the fundamentals and shooting.

R,
Bullseye

[piasashooter]

Thanks for the feedback. Bullseye, thats how i have always felt, I figured if I can get back on target in less time, I should shoot. If I take extra time, it usually results in me thinking to much and messing up a shot.

[mark II]

For the bullseye shooters out there, how much time are you pulling the trigger? Do you count in your head one thousand one - bang? Also do you vary trigger time on the different strings?
Mark II

[Bullseye]

For me it depends on the feel of the trigger. Once you fire a shot, the trigger initial pressure sequence and sight alignment process begins anew. As the sights are steadying up the final firing (trigger pressure) sequence continues until the pistol fires again. Active thinking (cognitive language) is a bad thing during sustained fire strings. It all comes down to training and feel of the fundamental process. Counting shots and actively thinking about time only leads to bad things. I repeat the sequences until the pistol will not fire again. This often means I'm aligning up the pistol's sights on an empty gun and attempting to fire again - which is a good method of follow through. Keep your thoughts simple and focus on the process of trigger and sights and your hits will cluster closer and closer to the center of the target. Many times my timed fire strings are only a second or two longer than a rapid fire string. This is only because I may take a little longer to break that first shot with the timed fire string. Once into the sustained firing sequence, my shots all break the same between the two stages.

R,
Bullseye

[stork]

I used to take the entire 20 seconds and mentally count to at least 4 before breaking the next shot. I would spend the 4 count trying to dress up the shot for an x. Then I started wondering why my rapid fire scores were always higher than my timed fire. Finally figured out you don't have to dress up the sight picture, just establish your stance so that recoil drops you right back into the center of the black AND STOP TRYING TO THINK. I can't tell you the number of times I have unconsciously triggered the next shot and found it in the 10 or x. Not from good trigger work, just establishing the right stance so your recoil recovery puts you back in the center and your trigger muscles just instinctively move it correctly.

Now I take a little more time than rapid fire, but not more than 2-4 seconds and that is for the very same reason Bullseye mentioned. I will take a few seconds delivering that first smooth trigger movement to the rear to wind up with an x.

PS: its not always an x. sometimes my mind takes over and I try to think instead of relying on good practice skills and trigger control from muscle memory.

[mark II]

Well you guys know what your talking about.
Guess by counting I was trying to dress up the shot and put pressure on myself.
No more leagues right now, good chance for my body to get rid of some lead. But in practice I will start shooting timed and rapid the same.
One of my last matches I shot a 286, I wasn't thinking, I was just watching the recoil, it was making a little oval then back to center then bang. Guess I was in the zone, good place to be. Need to be there more often.
Another thing, I really like to try to out shoot my teamates and that might be messing me up, putting more pressure on myself. I'm so inconsistent, have to reread that thread a few times. Well thanks for your help.
Mark II

[Bullseye]

Being "in the zone" is a good way to describe the sensation of the stage, but realistically you're just focusing on the mechanical fundamentals of each shot not the quality of the them. Later you'll be able to rerun the sequences through your mind and know if a shot didn't feel right.

R,
Bullseye

[Hardball]

Shoot them the same, timed and rapid. If there is any difference at all let it be in your head as

There is plenty of time for rapid if I do it right.

There is more than plenty time for timed if I do it right.

In rapid, two-three times, I have had an alibi in the alibi string with 208s. (hammer spring gets weak) I was able to drop the mag and insert another and get the shots off within the 10 seconds.

Plenty of time.

[KAZ]

I ran into the same issue in 22rf 50 yard benchrest match shooting where you have 20 minutes to shoot a 25 bull target. I would finish in 10 minutes and be waiting for the 20 minutes to elaspe with many shooters using every second of the 20 minutes. This is a game off understanding wind conditions and touching off the shot by reading your wind flags. Some times I used more of the time, but if my "condition" was there I let that decide and set the pace. regards

[Bullseye]

Just to be clear for anyone reading this topic: "Timed Fire" is a stage in a conventional pistol match. This stage consists of five shots fired in a time sequence of twenty seconds, two times through, for a total of ten shots. It is not about competing on a predetermined clock time limit.

In a Conventional Pistol (Bullseye) National Match course shooting there are three stages; slow fire; timed fire; and rapid fire for a total of thirty shots for the course. Each stage duration is ten shots fired over a specific time limit. The sustained fire stages, timed and rapid, are fired twice thorough for a total of ten shots. Timed and rapid fire stages are fired in twenty and ten seconds respectively. Slow fire is ten shots in ten minutes.

Different courses like 900, 1800, 2700, have the same stages but broken up into different "mini" stages. A National Match course is run as a 300 point aggregate score fired across the three aforementioned stages. A 900, 1800, and 2700 have the NM course included then have individual slow fire, timed fire, and rapid fire matches added in with the overall aggregate score. The timed fire stage consists of four twenty second stages for a total of twenty shots. The same goes for the Rapid fire match but the stages are fired in ten second intervals. The total aggregate score reflects these stages as if they were fired in two or three consecutive NM courses. It is more efficient to run a match this way with all the time sequences together rather than switching back and forth like in a regular NM course two or three times. Usually 1800 and 2700 matches consist of more than one type of firearm fired in a 900 aggregate stage. This means in an 1800 two kinds of pistols are used generally a .22 and a Center Fire pistol. In a 2700 there are three styles of pistol: .22; Center Fire; and .45 cal. The same caliber/pistol may be used between the CF and the .45 stages.


Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye

[Coach1]

Bullseye,
That summary explanation is excellent and provides any novice - or not so newbie - what one aspect of the shooting competitions are about.

I suggest that you make it a sticky on one of the forums here .. if not this one.

[Bullseye]

Sometimes I overlook the obvious, not everybody who reads these topics knows the disciplines. I thought I'd provide a brief, basic description just for those folks. I'm glad that you found it useful.

R,
Bullseye

[bgreenea3]

I think that maybe the timed/ rapid fire group differences can be all mental like you were rushing the shots because you think you are pressed for time.

likening it to other disiplines, like 50 yd 22 benchrest, where there is a time factor involved isn't that bad of a comparison. going away from competition (like conventional (bullseye) pistol, benchrest 22 rifle, etc) you can see shooters do worse when put on a clock due to the mental need to feel like they need to rush to make the time.

Police Qualifications, for example, will have stages like "draw fire 2 reload fire 2 in 10 seconds" which is a looooong time. some will rush their shots and shoot wide. I think its like "test anxiety" in the acedemic world.